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Author Topic: G or Em? ( tune called Callipyge )  (Read 2783 times)

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Thrupenny Bit

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G or Em? ( tune called Callipyge )
« on: November 25, 2012, 01:56:10 PM »

Hi All,
Really not sure what to do.....
I have chanced upon a lovely quirky French tune, Callipyge.
The key signature is G, ( 3/4 time but rapid! ) and I'm looking at the A music where it runs up EF#G,  AGF#, DEF# then it goes a bit off piste with some accidentals.
For once I'm wondering what chords to pop into a sequence like this as several alternatives seem to fit, so am now wondering if it is in G or possibly Em?
I have a recording of it with bagpipes, hurdgy gurdies and a box thrashing away producing a wonderful wall of sound, but suspect they are palying in another key, but it's all too rapid and intricate to sort out.
Any theorists out there like to make a comment?
thanks
Q
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I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Pete Dunk

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Re: G or Em? ( tune called Callipyge )
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2012, 02:19:33 PM »

Oddly enough I posed a related question only yesterday on concertina.net but I was wondering about the technically correct key signature rather than a chord progression. You may find the reply posted by Chuck Boody interesting, he's a musicologist by profession and I thought he would have been able to give a definitive answer!

If it's from pipe music you may even find it's modal but that wouldn't make any difference to the chords. Any chance of a sight of the dots?
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Pete Dunk

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Re: G or Em? ( tune called Callipyge )
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2012, 02:34:31 PM »

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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: G or Em? ( tune called Callipyge )
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2012, 02:52:00 PM »

Hi Pete, you beat me to it - yes that's the tune!
It's on a la Chavannee cd called 'Rage de danse' and I found it via a thread here about a tune called 'Retour de Montaignac'.
I sort of followed through and then found a dance book of tunes via Gary Chapin's blog.
Currently raving about the cd, which for a dyed in the wool English player says it all!

This tune is quirky in the way it slides up and down using G# and Bb, which means by trying to play it I get more used to using the two buttons at the chin end, never been used before......and it's sufficiently different and I like it!
....just not sure which way to turn on the first three bars.
Having had to 'unlearn' a couple of tunes previously cos I'd got them wrong, I'm trying to get into the habit of getting it as close as possible first time.
Q
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 02:53:58 PM by Thrupenny Bit »
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Chris Ryall

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Re: G or Em? ( tune called Callipyge )
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2012, 03:06:11 PM »

Elsener is a G bagpipe player.  If it really is 'cafe waltz' - I always (though not recently) played it in G, his home key. Yes there are a lot of passing notes, but if you ignore those  - defo G - I don't think Eric was too bothered about chords  ;)

Anyone got a link to music of a video? Check we're all on the same tune
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: G or Em? ( tune called Callipyge )
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2012, 03:36:30 PM »

Aha!  as ever Chris, should have realised you probably knew the tune and player.
I haven't a link to any music on Youtube, I just bought the mp3 download from Amazon. The dots are the same in the link posted by Pete and the tune I have in the tune book.
If it's in G then I think I'm there.......
thank you kind sirs!
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Pete Dunk

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Re: G or Em? ( tune called Callipyge )
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2012, 04:03:13 PM »

Hi Pete, you beat me to it - yes that's the tune!

The problem is that the music is written as 6/4 in the last line, should those be quavers not crotchets in 3/4 or has the time signature actually changed to 6/4?
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Pete Dunk

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Re: G or Em? ( tune called Callipyge )
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2012, 04:33:58 PM »

Here are the three alternatives I've come up with, I think one of them must be right, probably the last one.

Code: [Select]
X:23
T:Callipyge
T:Cafe Waltz
C:E. Elsener
M:3/4
L:1/4
Q:1/4=200
K:G
B2 G|EFG|AGF|DEF|GFG|A^GA|B^AB|A2 G|
B2 G|EFG|AGF|DEF|GFG|A^GA|B_BA|G3:|
|:D2 F|ECB|Adc|B2 G|D2 F|EcB|AGF|1G3:|2G2 A|
M:6/4
|:BGEGBG|BGEGBG|cAFDFA|cAFDFA|
BGEGBG|BGEGBG|cAFDFA|1G4 A2:|2G6|]


X:24
T:Callipyge
T:Cafe Waltz
C:E. Elsener
M:3/4
L:1/4
Q:1/4=200
K:G
B2 G|EFG|AGF|DEF|GFG|A^GA|B^AB|A2 G|
B2 G|EFG|AGF|DEF|GFG|A^GA|B_BA|G3:|
|:D2 F|ECB|Adc|B2 G|D2 F|EcB|AGF|1G3:|2G2 A|
L:1/8
|:BGEGBG|BGEGBG|cAFDFA|cAFDFA|
BGEGBG|BGEGBG|cAFDFA|1G4 A2:|2G6|]

X:25
T:Callipyge
T:Cafe Waltz
C:E. Elsener
M:3/4
L:1/4
Q:1/4=200
K:G
B2 G|EFG|AGF|DEF|GFG|A^GA|B^AB|A2 G|
B2 G|EFG|AGF|DEF|GFG|A^GA|B_BA|G3:|
|:D2 F|ECB|Adc|B2 G|D2 F|EcB|AGF|1G3:|2G2 A|
|:BGE|GBG|BGE|GBG|cAF|DFA|cAF|DFA|
BGE|GBG|BGE|GBG|cAF|DFA|1G2 A:|2G3|]
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Squeezing on the Isle of Oxney, UK
Primo (Serenellini) D/G
Isis D/G
Hohner B/E, G/C, C/F, Bb/Eb G/C/F
Liliputs D/G (G scale), C/F, Bb/Eb, Albrecht Custom D/G (G scale)

Thrupenny Bit

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Re: G or Em? ( tune called Callipyge )
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2012, 07:44:16 PM »

The middle one is the set of dots I've got, and that's from their dance book, so I'll go with that.
thanks for the info.
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Pete Dunk

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Re: G or Em? ( tune called Callipyge )
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2012, 11:22:47 PM »

The middle one is the set of dots I've got, and that's from their dance book, so I'll go with that.
thanks for the info.
Q

In that case you're on your own with the chords. The ABC editor I use is able to 'suggest' chords based on the notes in each bar, I've listened to the resulting playback and believe me you are best left to your own devices!

As the name Callipyge translates as 'Beautiful Buttocks' I think I've done as much work on this piece as is decent, I'll be having lady melodeonists assaulting me in the street next!  :|glug  ;)
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Chris Ryall

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Re: G or Em? ( tune called Callipyge )
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2012, 06:42:26 AM »

Well bu blow me!  Wiki-diki has it from  καλλι “beautiful”  and πυγή "the other word" :P  Seems these original 'marbles' now reside in Naples and the "French connection" is probably  from George Brassens' chanson

« Du temps des Grecs, deux sœurs disaient avoir aussi beau cul que fille de leur sorte ;
   La question ne fut que de savoir quelle des deux dessus l'autre l'emporte :
   Pour en juger un expert étant pris, à la moins jeune il accorde le prix,
   Puis l'épousant, lui fait don de son âme ; à son exemple, un sien frère est épris
   De la cadette, et la prend pour sa femme ; tant fut entre eux, à la fin, procédé,
   Que par les sœurs un temple fut fondé, dessous le nom de Vénus belle-fesse »


   (Bit like the judgement of Paris,  though I'm sure Frédéric didn't get a look in)!

Knew I had it - it's p34 of  Encyclopedia Blowzabellica as  "Cafe waltz" - which means I learned it in 1989  :o  Subsequently heard/danced it at source (barn in Embraud) in the 90's. I really wouldn't lose too much sleep on the C music variation. It runs over a G/D7 rock and a top cabrette player (he is!) would let himself go melodically. I think much of the variance in UK comes from what Jon Swain used to do, and any further improvisation on our instrument is .. to be encouraged.   :|glug
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 06:45:19 AM by Chris Ryall »
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Marje

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Re: G or Em? ( tune called Callipyge )
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2012, 06:25:01 PM »

I've heard that tune and muddled along to it (sans accidentals), and would say it's mostly in G but can include a few Em chords (eg bar 2), and that the third section (which seems to be written out at half-speed in the version linked to) is in E minor. That's not unusual as they two keys are very closely related.
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Gary P Chapin

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Re: G or Em? ( tune called Callipyge )
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2012, 06:32:48 PM »

I've heard that tune and muddled along to it (sans accidentals), and would say it's mostly in G but can include a few Em chords (eg bar 2), and that the third section (which seems to be written out at half-speed in the version linked to) is in E minor. That's not unusual as they two keys are very closely related.
On a G/C accordion, one way to deal with those chromatic bars is to alternate between the two G-bass buttons (one pull, t'other push), to create a drone for those bars.  I know it doesn't work chordally at all, but mimics the drone of the pipes or vielle.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 06:44:35 PM by Gary Chapin »
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Chris Ryall

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Re: G or Em? ( tune called Callipyge )
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2012, 10:31:20 PM »

Not normally true of the Chavs who famously drone in D - apart from out hero Eric - who drones in G  :D
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Gary P Chapin

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Re: G or Em? ( tune called Callipyge )
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2012, 10:46:43 PM »

Not normally true of the Chavs who famously drone in D - apart from out hero Eric - who drones in G  :D
A world in which the Chavs do anything "famously" would be a truly wonderful place ... sigh  (:)
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Chris Ryall

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Re: G or Em? ( tune called Callipyge )
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2012, 11:11:50 PM »

Your wish is my command https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAtHQPPAws8 - looks like Eric (very briefly) on the far right playing transverse flute.  Cabrette appears in one of the linked videos

 .. anyone into "um pah" might profitably watch what Fred Paris's left hand is doing ... sparse or what?  ;)
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