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[Andrew Wigglesworth]

Welcome Tostig ,if you like celtic music and the didly didly bits ,you would be better off with  a two row B/C  or C#/D tuned box[melodeon]this is what Irish players use, it is harder to learn but worth it if you like that type of music ,You can play the D/G melodeon as mentioned but it will not be as authentic in my opinion.

I really don't see what is so innatley "authentic" about B/C and C#/D boxes and Irish (never liked the misleading word "celtic") traditional music. Of course there's custom and habit that's built up and I'm not decrying them as tuning systems.

However, they're not even identical sounding styles between the two systems. Sure, not so far apart, but the differences were evidenced to me when I found out the fact that all nearly all my favourite Irish box players were C#/D or one row players.

Historical accident is much to blame for all this, and the melodeon/accordion is a pretty recent addition to the mix of all our musics. It wasn't so long ago when many more were still playing one row boxes in Ireland and still experimenting with many other tuning combinations. One row melodeons seem to be making a welcome (though still small) come-back in recent years.

Opinions, wonderful things, we can all have one 

[911377brian]

Spot on Andrew, there is something special about one rows.I remember being quite suprised as a nipper the first time I saw a two row melodeon being played, after only seeing one rows around the Essex pubs.And I do'nt really understand why tyros are often told that they are more difficult to play than two rows....although someone is bound to tell me any time now.....

[Lester]

Spot on Andrew, there is something special about one rows.I remember being quite suprised as a nipper the first time I saw a two row melodeon being played, after only seeing one rows around the Essex pubs.And I do'nt really understand why tyros are often told that they are more difficult to play than two rows....although someone is bound to tell me any time now.....

One reason, for D/G players anyway, is that you need to play a 1 Row mostly in the dusty end so needs a whole new mind set.

[Andrew Wigglesworth]

Spot on Andrew, there is something special about one rows.I remember being quite suprised as a nipper the first time I saw a two row melodeon being played, after only seeing one rows around the Essex pubs.And I do'nt really understand why tyros are often told that they are more difficult to play than two rows....although someone is bound to tell me any time now.....

One reason, for D/G players anyway, is that you need to play a 1 Row mostly in the dusty end so needs a whole new mind set.

Yes, there's something in that. Fortunately I was encouraged at the beginning to learn tunes in both positions where possible, but there are other issues as well.

Melodeons are inherently limited instruments and as people here have often pointed out, this is a big part of their charm. The modern session, however, is much more wide ranging and intense than what I have seen of the past (ie. on film). This is more true of the modern English session I think. I wasn't there at those sessions so I can easily be contradicted by those who were  :-)

These days people generally want a rather more flexible instrument with which they can join in with all those fiddle players. Playing a D one-row in a session can work, but it is both loud, and there's too much going on that you just miss out on. A D/G is simply easier to join in with.

I would very rarely go to a session with a one-row box, even less so with one in C. The one-row these days is more of a niche instrument. I love it and try to slip it in as much as I can at dances and concerts.

[Pat.]

Nothing wrong with the one row Andrew I play that myself  as well as but when people express a desire to play [CELTIC ],they normaly mean traditional Irish music in my experience,so the best course would be a semi tone box  as  a D/G  seldom hits the same spot but as you quote we all have different opinions

[Daddy Long Les]

Hello
I've never played any instrument but am seriously considering trying.

Is the Melodeon really the easiest instrument to learn on?
I'm nearly 70. Is it likely that I could get good enough that I could play a tune that people could dance to?
Tostig

Welcome to melnet Tostig.

The melodeon is not the easiest instrument I've ever tried to play but it's certainly the most addictive!
Be prepared for a few aches and pains as your body adjusts to all the new things it is being asked to do and don't practise for too long at first.

I started on a DG and this worked well for me.  I suggest you get yourself a Hohner Pokerwork or Erica to start with - very light weight and not crazily expensive.  Buy from someone reputable on here like Theo, Martyn White or Lester.  eBay purchases can have hidden costs if the instrument you buy is out of tune or has problems.

In answer to your question - there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to play a few dance tunes with the right hand only after a few weeks, gradually adding the left hand as and when you can.

Lots of luck and let us know how you get on.

Les

[Theo]

One reason, for D/G players anyway, is that you need to play a 1 Row mostly in the dusty end so needs a whole new mind set.

An excellent thing for all of us

[Guy]

One reason, for D/G players anyway, is that you need to play a 1 Row mostly in the dusty end so needs a whole new mind set.

An excellent thing for all of us

I couldn't agree more-and possibly a good way to start too! When I first played I didn't know many other melodeon players, and there wasn't a Melnet, so I didn't know that there was a "dusty end" on a D/G box that I should avoid. It was all just notes on a keyboard, some higher than others, but all there to be used. I don't know if it's made me a better player, but at least I don't worry about the upper notes...no more than any of the others, anyway...

[Graham Spencer]

I think one of the reasons many D/G players fight shy of the top octave may be that it's so high-pitched (not so bad if you have 3 voices, but approaching dogs-and-dolphins territory with a 2-voice) and can sound uncomfortable.

Graham

[mac]

I think one of the reasons many D/G players fight shy of the top octave may be that it's so high-pitched (not so bad if you have 3 voices, but approaching dogs-and-dolphins territory with a 2-voice) and can sound uncomfortable.

Graham

Same thing with my CG concertina, the high G octave is not really that enjoyable to play.

[Johnf]

Spot on Andrew, there is something special about one rows.I remember being quite suprised as a nipper the first time I saw a two row melodeon being played, after only seeing one rows around the Essex pubs.And I do'nt really understand why tyros are often told that they are more difficult to play than two rows....although someone is bound to tell me any time now.....

I have played Cajun music for years now, which is almost exclusively played on a one-row, most often tuned in C. Playing songs in G or F is actually quite easy, there is only one note missing and it is no problem to play around it. A highly skilled player can "fudge" play in as many as 5 keys by using chords and filling in the gaps. But, the Professional players I know usually carry at least 3 separate instruments tuned in C, D, and Bb (I have seen players who have 7 different melodeons in that many different keys). 
Wanting to play in all keys is one big reason I recently acquired a Hohner "Double Ray" which is a B/C semi-tuned two row. I wouldn't say it is more difficult, but does require a different approach in technique. It has been fun learning. 
I started learning the melodeon when I was 57 and will say it is NEVER too late to start.  Scientists have determined that one way to keep your mind active and healthy as you grow older is to learn a complex new skill. Learning to play an instrument is one of the very best.

[Tostig]

Hello again again,
Having spent the last several days looking at sites listening to melodeons in general and to Daddy Long Les in particular, I am now in a quandray (I don't think that I mentioned that I have broken my leg so am also in bed for now so have nothing better to do and at least another 3 weeks still to go).
Les says buy a D/G as do most 'authorities'. But i think that I like the sound of a G/C better, but I may be wrong. Certainly I like to sing to myself and Les seems to think that a D/G is not very good to sing along to (I have eliminated a B/C as too specialised for me).
The other problem is money. There do not seem to be a lot of second hand boxes around and certainly not in the £300 ish class that Les seems to spend which means that I could be looking at 6 or £700 which is not an amount to be thrown away (there is a C/G on here not selling so far for £650 with a new price of only £700 so a more realistic price would be £600 s/h meaning a drop of at least £100 if I get it wrong) which means trying to get it right first time, when I know very little and have uneducated ears and no music theory.
Question 1. If one turns up at a dance, English country, would it be possible to join in with a C/G (assuming some skill)?
Would George Garside's book be of any use with a C/G now that I have spent £12 for 25 pages? Or is there somewhere that one can buy D/Gs which are ready to play for £300 ish?

[Theo]

There is a DG Delicia in eBay no 121049745297 £150 buy it now.  A very good price. Cheaper than the cheapest new Chinese and much better quality.  Only possible problem is its collection only from Cambridge.  Some sellers who say collection only will send if asked, or will let you arrange a courier to collect, failing that there might be a member here who would help out.

[Lyra]

Melodeons also are "an investment". So in the worst case scenario, unless you've bought a a complete turkey (and with the joy of Ebay probably even then) you will be able to send it to a new home and recoup a large chunk of your investment. If you can bring yourself to part with it  .

[ladydetemps]

OK. Thanks for that so far.
Following in from that, it is mentioned somewhere that you can't get all the notes out of a melodeon. Does this mean that there are tunes that you can't play? Like e.g. Danny Boy, or Waltzing Matilda or She walks through the Fair. My kind of music is folksie inc. Celtic and a lot of other stuff too and it would be very annoying to find that after spending years learning it wasn't possible to play half of the things I want.
Tostig

Waltzing Matilda isn't celtic  unless australia has moved. lol!
My problem is I like pop and rock and jazz ....which don't fit on the box very comfortably (as well as folk). So I stick to folk on the box.

Hello again again,
Having spent the last several days looking at sites listening to melodeons in general and to Daddy Long Les in particular, I am now in a quandray (I don't think that I mentioned that I have broken my leg so am also in bed for now so have nothing better to do and at least another 3 weeks still to go).
Les says buy a D/G as do most 'authorities'. But i think that I like the sound of a G/C better, but I may be wrong. Certainly I like to sing to myself and Les seems to think that a D/G is not very good to sing along to (I have eliminated a B/C as too specialised for me).
The other problem is money. There do not seem to be a lot of second hand boxes around and certainly not in the £300 ish class that Les seems to spend which means that I could be looking at 6 or £700 which is not an amount to be thrown away (there is a C/G on here not selling so far for £650 with a new price of only £700 so a more realistic price would be £600 s/h meaning a drop of at least £100 if I get it wrong) which means trying to get it right first time, when I know very little and have uneducated ears and no music theory.
Question 1. If one turns up at a dance, English country, would it be possible to join in with a C/G (assuming some skill)?
Would George Garside's book be of any use with a C/G now that I have spent £12 for 25 pages? Or is there somewhere that one can buy D/Gs which are ready to play for £300 ish?

Well if you turned up at an east anglian session with a C/G you'd be ok for the tunes in G, and if people got out their one rows in C you'd be ok then as well.   I play a D/G and then have a one row in C (I have to make a rule no more than one box of each key I can't afford to buy boxes at every whim like some people.... ).
What part of the country are you in? (no need for specifics just general area) it might be good to go to a local session and see what is being played or find a workshop where you can have a go. As for the price yes not to be sniffed at but if you buy a good 2nd hand model you can resell without loss. IMO If you buy a pig of a box it'll put you off playing it.

[Steve_freereeder]

Les says buy a D/G as do most 'authorities'. But i think that I like the sound of a G/C better, but I may be wrong. Certainly I like to sing to myself and Les seems to think that a D/G is not very good to sing along to (I have eliminated a B/C as too specialised for me).

Although sometimes we might wish it were otherwise, is a fact of life that in England and Wales, most melodeon players will be playing D/G instruments much of the time. The instrument suits the majority of 'folk' tunes and dance tunes in the way they are played these days, in sessions, ceilidhs, morris, etc.

One thing about learning the melodeon is the huge boost and progress one can make by playing along with other people and for that you really need to be playing an instrument in the same tuning as everyone else. As Andrew Wigglesworth has said earlier in the thread, if you have a D/G box it is simply easier to join in with.

People who know me on this forum will know that I love playing in other keys, particularly C and F, but at the same time I am pragmatic and if I want to play along with others, I will need a D/G box most of the time. So that's what I recommend someone to start with, and why.

Singing along with any melodeon is dependant on one's voice range. Some people do find the D/G box a bit high-pitched, and prefer a C/F or Bb/Eb box. But the D/G is not out of the question. Songs which are too high in G will often be OK in D. Bob Roberts, the sailing barge master, always sang along to a D/G box.

Question 1. If one turns up at a dance, English country, would it be possible to join in with a C/G (assuming some skill)?
Would George Garside's book be of any use with a C/G now that I have spent £12 for 25 pages? Or is there somewhere that one can buy D/Gs which are ready to play for £300 ish?

The tunes played for ceilidhs, country dances, etc., in England will nearly always be in the key of D or G, sometimes A major and E minor. As a beginner, the instrument you need for these is a D/G. It is possible to play in D on G/C box but for a beginner it's not so easy and it doesn't 'fit' nicely on the instrument. Playing in A major on a G/C box is even worse.

The other point is that unless it is a 'scratch band', open to all comers, the bands at country dances will usually be a pre-booked group who play by themselves and would not normally welcome other musicians 'joining in' unless by prior arrangement.

George's book is geared to the D/G box and whilst the techniques in theory could be applied to a G/C instrument, the notes produced by the instrument would be different from the printed music in the book. Also, as others have mentioned, the G/C instrument is generally played in a different (upper) part of the keyboard, which George's book does not cater for.

So (as you have now decided not to pursue the Irish/Scottish B/C semitone tuned route) in summary, I would overwhelmingly recommend the D/G box as a starter for all the reasons given by all of us here so far. If you want to explore the G/C or other tunings at a later stage, that's possible too, but the D/G will give you a thorough grounding and will almost certainly give you the most enjoyment. Which is hopefully what it's all about.

[Howard Jones]

Although sometimes we might wish it were otherwise, is a fact of life that in England and Wales, most melodeon players will be playing D/G instruments much of the time. The instrument suits the majority of 'folk' tunes and dance tunes in the way they are played these days, in sessions, ceilidhs, morris, etc.

We seem to be in a viscous circle where D, G and A have become the standard session keys, and fiddle players complain that they never get play in anything else.  This is largely a consequence the D/G melodeon having being introduced in order to play along with fiddlers!

[Graham Spencer]

Waltzing Matilda isn't celtic 

No, it's from the south-east of England.......

[Andrew Wigglesworth]

Although sometimes we might wish it were otherwise, is a fact of life that in England and Wales, most melodeon players will be playing D/G instruments much of the time. The instrument suits the majority of 'folk' tunes and dance tunes in the way they are played these days, in sessions, ceilidhs, morris, etc.

We seem to be in a viscous circle where D, G and A have become the standard session keys, and fiddle players complain that they never get play in anything else.  This is largely a consequence the D/G melodeon having being introduced in order to play along with fiddlers!

... and when you play stuff in other keys they don't even try to join in (yeah, generalisation, I know).

I think it's a little unfair to blame melodeon players for something that fiddle players also do. I go along to an Irish session (not another D/G player there ... ever!) and guess which keys they play in?

Yep, D, G, A, A dorian, E dorian. When I stray into B minor no-one follows.

[Theo]

Thankfully the fiddle players round here play in a very wide range of keys, in fact a friend told me off (in the nicest possible way) for playing The Wonder in G when it was originally written by James Hill in B♭.   Looking through old ms there are lots of tunes in flat keys and I think it is a shame that in those parts where DG predominates a lot of the other keys are currently neglected.