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Author Topic: Meet Gloria  (Read 5666 times)

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Gary Chapin

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Re: Meet Gloria
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2013, 04:33:16 PM »

When Dave Mallinson republished Dansons la Morvandelle by Mike Gilpin, the tunes were all rearranged from G/C friendly to D/G friendly, explicitly to be suitable for British players.  they also added tunes and corrected errors from the Dragonfly (G/C) edition.  I'm reviewing the book for the blog, but have to move back and forth between the two. Very tricky.
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AirTime

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Re: Meet Gloria
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2013, 05:35:32 PM »

Well, my comment (ironic) about GC being "murky" was a response to remarks I have come across from (English!) Melnetters commenting on the "French" system. I think any objective observer would have to conclude that the traditional DG system is the most problematic, as it leaves a number of high notes that are pretty much useless, whereas the low notes on a GC can definitely more easily be used to good effect. In practice, the music typically played on each system is well suited to sound best on that system.

To my ear, the range of a BbEb box sounds about perfect - the low notes are warm & rich & the high notes are still viable. However, I think my attraction to BbEb has got a lot to do with the fact that most of the boxes I've heard in that tuning are vintage Hohners, & the sound produced is a combination of the tuning, the old reeds, the tunes being played & the way they're played.
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GPS

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Re: Meet Gloria
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2013, 05:52:30 PM »


To my ear, the range of a BbEb box sounds about perfect - the low notes are warm & rich & the high notes are still viable. However, I think my attraction to BbEb has got a lot to do with the fact that most of the boxes I've heard in that tuning are vintage Hohners, & the sound produced is a combination of the tuning, the old reeds, the tunes being played & the way they're played.

You may well have a point there - as far as I am aware, new Bb/Eb boxes are fairly thin on the ground, and there may be something in the ageing process that makes those old Hohners sound so sweet.
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Theo

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Re: Meet Gloria
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2013, 06:06:32 PM »

Indeed and not just ageing process, but the reeds are made differently, zinc plates, thinner plates, different tongue shape, different reed steel...
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Theo Gibb

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squeezy

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Re: Meet Gloria
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2013, 06:13:53 PM »

I think any objective observer would have to conclude that the traditional DG system is the most problematic, as it leaves a number of high notes that are pretty much useless, whereas the low notes on a GC can definitely more easily be used to good effect.

I'm not sure I'd agree although I'm hardly impartial in this matter.  I certainly use all the top notes on a 21 button D/G layout although sometimes for ornamentation or effects rather than always as part of the tune.  The very low notes on a G/C often are slow to speak unless the instrument is top notch quality and set up really well (The amount of times I've had to change the valves on the lower notes of my G/C is unbelievable)

In practice, the music typically played on each system is well suited to sound best on that system.

That I definitely agree with!
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Squeezy

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Re: Meet Gloria
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2013, 09:34:49 PM »

Well, my comment (ironic) about GC being "murky" was a response to remarks I have come across from (English!) Melnetters commenting on the "French" system. I think any objective observer would have to conclude that the traditional DG system is the most problematic, as it leaves a number of high notes that are pretty much useless,
Alright, I forgive you  8)
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Meet Gloria
« Reply #46 on: January 15, 2013, 05:30:57 PM »

I have decided to continue working on this box because it didn't cost a lot, I can't do much damage and I think there's quite a lot to learn from it. Who knows I may get lucky and get a fun box out of it although I'll be surprised if it's anything better than mediocre. Once I get the bellows airtight and the internal cracks sorted out I'll do the reed overhaul, re-valve and tuning as it's long on time and low on cost. Then we'll take it from there.  :|glug
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Adam-T

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Re: Meet Gloria
« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2013, 05:46:45 PM »

Good move ! ..... to be honest, you`re lucky that it`s got individual reedplates, some of them had each bank on a single plate like a Mouth Organ , not a good sign in a saxony box (though Pigini still make Bandoneons that way)..
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Meet Gloria
« Reply #48 on: January 15, 2013, 07:12:57 PM »

some of them had each bank on a single plate like a Mouth Organ , not a good sign in a saxony box

Ah yes, had it have been one of those grotty little things with false stops and hideous bellows with bits of wood in the middle I probably wouldn't have picked it up with a litter picker!
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Meet Gloria
« Reply #49 on: January 19, 2013, 11:44:37 AM »

Many thanks to Bill Young for posting this bit of information on the accordion forum, at least I now know where the old girl came from.

Quote
"Gebr[üder] Ludwig was founded as a mouth harmonica manufacturer in 1844 in Brunndöbra by Friedrich Adolph Ludwig. In 1864 Franz Louis Ludwig opened a branch in Zwota, which started making (diatonic) accordions in 1889, and soon after chromatic accordions. In 1906 it had some 300 employees. In the GDR times it became a "Betrieb mit staatlicher Beteiligung"; at that point it had 24 employees, of which 10 women and 13 home workers. In 1972 it became the VEB "Zwotaer Akkordeonfabrik", which merged into the VEB "Klingende Täler" in Zwota in 1975. Brand or model names included Viking, Parzival, Royal, Wessola, and Gloria.
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Meet Gloria
« Reply #50 on: January 28, 2013, 08:39:00 PM »

Gloria has been 'Lestered'!

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Pete Dunk

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Re: Meet Gloria
« Reply #51 on: January 28, 2013, 11:50:59 PM »

Using large old fashioned try squares (40 year old 12" rosewood handle and blued steel blade with brass inlays *tool fetish*) I have determined that Gloria is well out of kilter. The bellows frames have high corners on the mating faces whilst the end boxes have 'high points' two or three inches in on opposing sides.  ::)

So, all of the old bellows pin holes have now been filled in with cocktail sticks coated in PVA and I propose to use 1.5mm aero-ply spacers to mark and drill new pin holes before using new 3mm gaskets. Thoughts/suggestions most welcome!
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Lester

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Re: Meet Gloria
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2013, 08:03:35 AM »

So, all of the old bellows pin holes have now been filled in with cocktail sticks coated in PVA and I propose to use 1.5mm aero-ply spacers to mark and drill new pin holes before using new 3mm gaskets. Thoughts/suggestions most welcome!

I was taught by Emmanuel Pariselle to not use any spacers at all but to put the box together with out gaskets, drill the holes, fit the gasket and Robert est frère de ton père.
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Theo

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Re: Meet Gloria
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2013, 09:54:28 AM »

Gloria has been 'Lestered'!



In what sense is that Lestered?
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Theo Gibb

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Lester

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Re: Meet Gloria
« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2013, 10:25:28 AM »

Gloria has been 'Lestered'!



In what sense is that Lestered?

I think it refers to the fact that I published some photos of the brackets for tuning in this manner, in which I acknowledged that I got the idea from Rees at the 1 Row course in Stowmarket, he in turn acknowledged that he got the idea from Emmanuel.

So more correctly 'Gloria has been 'Emmanueled'!
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Adam-T

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Re: Meet Gloria
« Reply #55 on: January 29, 2013, 11:03:29 AM »

So more correctly 'Gloria has been 'Emmanueled'!

if that doesn`t sound Risque then nothing does  ;D
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Meet Gloria
« Reply #56 on: January 29, 2013, 08:56:49 PM »

I was taught by Emmanuel Pariselle to not use any spacers at all but to put the box together with out gaskets, drill the holes, fit the gasket and Robert est frère de ton père.

So I did just that and it helped slightly but she was still leaking like a sieve so I set too with bright lights (found three pinprick holes in gussets so applied skived leather patches) and damp lips which revealed slight leaks at all four corners of both ends. ::) After a fair bit of messing about this turned out to be failure of the glued joints in the mitred corners of the casework where it meets the bellows, so I worked PVA into the minute gaps of every joint and after drying for a couple of hours the corners were airtight.

Still losing too much air though so I stood it on the bench, took the treble grille off, dropped a tissue over the pallets at one end, opened the bellows and let go. I had expected to find air passing the pallets but the tissue fluttered at the outer edges, away from the pallets. A few hairline cracks in the 'soundboard' that I hadn't been too concerned about because none were visible on the other side were gushing out air.  ??? Off came the fingerboard and action for a close inspection, I found that the light cracks opened up into fissures when they reached a hole under a reed chamber which allowed air  to whistle up along the ravine under the pallet until it could escape. Some time was then spent undertaking crack repairs, I'll find out the results when I pop it back together tomorrow.   :o
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Theo

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Re: Meet Gloria
« Reply #57 on: January 29, 2013, 09:04:28 PM »

Superglue can be excellent for sealing fine cracks,because of its ability to capillary into the smallest gaps. Quicker than working pva into cracks, but still needs clamping and plenty if time to cure fully.
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Theo Gibb

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Pete Dunk

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Re: Meet Gloria
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2013, 06:29:31 PM »

I've been refacing the pallets and took the opportunity to add to the collection of photos, here's the weird air valve arrangement:



I must have been in the mood for sympathetic restoration as you can see by my use of old leather valves to attach the pallets. I think they look rather nice! The air valve is now about a third larger than it was as it was a bit slow in use, much better now. Close up pics of the air valve mechanism, that there little loose pin has to poke into the hole on the underside of the operating lever, nightmare!







Treble end pallets. Leather would have been too much of a fiddle on the row nearest the keyboard so I went with hot melt glue for this end. I find hot melt a bit uncontrollable, it's difficult to keep it neat especially when some parts aren't easily accessible and you need to do a bit of messing about to get in.





Edit: Typos
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 02:40:43 PM by tallship »
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Meet Gloria
« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2017, 11:39:42 PM »

Four years later I have finally dragged Gloria out from the back of the store cupboard to look again at the problems that made me give up on the repairs. Once again I was surprised that the box was so pretty to look at and that the tone of the reeds is so delightful, it's such a shame that the mechanical design was so poor. I've now re-read the whole thread and noted that there were aspects of the design which surprised Theo and that he had not previously seen, so I'm now considering sending Gloria up to Gateshead for a professional appraisal. It's probably good money after bad but imagine if Gloria could be made to be the best she's ever been, what then eh?
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