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Author Topic: Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????  (Read 8739 times)

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Keithypete.

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Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????
« on: January 12, 2013, 02:58:50 PM »

Why do I KEEP making mistakes? Even with tunes which I thought I had nailed on?  >:(
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Theo

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Re: Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2013, 03:00:53 PM »

Because you are human!  We all do it.  Ever been to a John Kirkpatrick concert without a mistake?   Me neither, but he is still a great performer.
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YorkieKen

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Re: Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2013, 03:16:53 PM »

You don't make mistakes...you create variations  ::)
I do it all the time  :||:
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Graham Spencer

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Re: Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2013, 03:18:37 PM »

Absolutely.  I think I can safely say that in all the years I've been playing I have NEVER played a gig - band, morris, folk club, whatever - where I have not made a few mistakes.  Some years ago I worked in a band with a guitarist who got quite worked up whenever there was a slight glitch, whether musical or technical, saying it was "unprofessional"; he seemed to be totally oblivious to the number of c**k-ups he must have seen in big-name pro concerts.  I remember a Gary Glitter Christmas Concert (before he was persona non grata) where there were a few "interesting" musical moments and the techies were onstage almost as much as the band.  Now if it can go wrong for a supremely professional outfit rehearsed to that level........

Graham
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911377brian

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Re: Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2013, 03:36:46 PM »

I play with two lady guitarists who seem to be totally oblivious to my mistakes.It cheers me no end and I feel myself loosening up wonderfully....and make less mistakes. ....I wish I'd worded the first half of the first sentence differently.... :|bl
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Sage Herb

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Re: Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2013, 03:45:36 PM »

Because you are human!  We all do it.

Indeed we are and we do. What I find more galling is my tendency to repeat the mistake next time through the tune - not always, but too often......

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Myrrh Music

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Re: Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2013, 03:48:38 PM »

I find the most annoying thing at the moment is drifting from one tune into another - I see it coming every time and can't stop myself drifting from Lillbulero into Grimstock...Not that I can play either well. :(
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tedrick

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Re: Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2013, 03:52:26 PM »

Hi Pete -
I think the inner game of music if fascinating - I think we often make mistakes because we are thinking too hard -

isn't it interesting how you can put a tune away for a few weeks that you aren't playing especially well, and then come back to it after awhile and play it better than when you were really practicing it hard?

I find I make fewer mistakes when I'm playing with others - listening to the other players and hearing the tune through their instruments helps a lot - as opposed to playing solo where I'm just listening to myself and I can just loose it - there is so much to the inner game of music - thinking ahead to the next phrase or next tune, keeping time, not getting distracted - it's all a lot easier when you are in a session or with a group.

It really makes you admire great musicians even more - I think what we can learn from them is they are not over thinking - they are just playing and letting the music come out like water.
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Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2013, 04:18:04 PM »

I find the most annoying thing at the moment is drifting from one tune into another - I see it coming every time and can't stop myself drifting from Lillbulero into Grimstock...Not that I can play either well. :(

" Keep calm and carry on"
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Mike Hirst

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Re: Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2013, 04:21:43 PM »

the inner game of music if fascinating

There is an excellent book of this name, which I have read myself and I have often recommended to pupils

The Inner Game of Music - Barry Green/W Timothy Gallwey
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Howard Jones

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Re: Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2013, 04:23:51 PM »

Most mistakes are noticed only by the player - the audience isn't even aware.  You may have played an incorrect note, but if it's not glaringly obvious that it's "wrong" then no one will know, or care.  Fortunately the melodeon is fairly forgiving since any wrong notes will at least probably be in the right key.

The next level of mistake may be noticed by the audience at the time, but is immediately forgiven and forgotten as it is just a minor glitch which doesn't interfere with their enjoyment of the performance as a whole.

The mistakes which most challenge a performer are the ones which do interfere with the performance - the challenge being how to deal with them.  Examples are forgetting the words or the tune, or starting in the wrong key.

Inexperienced performers tend to panic over even minor mistakes.  Experienced performers learn to cope with them and develop tricks to disguise them.  I was once complimented that I never seem to forget the words to songs - wrong!  However I became quite good at throwing in an unplanned instrumental break, mumbling something to cover a lost word or two or even making it up as I went along.  What I tried to avoid was staring at the ceiling while strumming the same chord - a dead give-away, but one which you see all to often in singarounds.

As Theo has pointed out, John K frequently makes mistakes - usually he just laughs them off, which brings the audience on his side.  Dick Gaughan (a superb Scottish singer and guitarist) says on his website that the difference between a professional and an amateur is "The professional normally doesn't tell the audience they've forgotten the next verse".  He's also said that in his professional career almost anything that could go wrong has gone wrong, so he's learned to deal with it and not to let it rattle him.

The lesson (besides continuing to practice) is not to worry so much about mistakes.  This will also make you more relaxed, and less likely to make any.  However when you do make one, learn how to deal with it.  It's all part of the learning experience.

tedrick

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Re: Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2013, 04:44:50 PM »

Great comments Howard - thanks!
My school band director always recommended the Inner Game of Music -
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Chris Brimley

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Re: Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2013, 05:08:21 PM »

I agree with everything said.  I've always had trouble with this, although for reasons unknown to me, after about thirty years of playing I noticed I was suddenly making noticeably fewer mistakes.

Also, it's easy to forget just how complex playing any musical instrument actually is - for the box you have to remember a pattern of right hand fingerings and bellows movements, play them in time, at the right speed, with the right emphasis and length, at the same time as playing a different pattern on the left hand, and controlling the bellows with your thumb.  It takes a very long period of time to gain enough experience to have found ways of learning all those things in such a way that you can do them all at once.  In JK's case he's doing all these things to a very high level of complexity, and on top of all that, singing and relating to an audience, and I find the amazing thing about him is that he doesn't make more mistakes!

However, I also feel that some people do seem to find it easier than others to play without mistakes, and this may be something to do with inadvertently learning other conflicting patterns, subconsciously, as the brain assimilates a tune into long-term memory.  I find that rehearsing a tune once (or more until you've got it right) just before you perform it live is a very useful technique, because for me it has the effect of 're-cementing' the right patterns in my memory.

I have often wondered why I suddenly seemed to get less-mistake prone over the last few years.  It's partly down to doing more practice these days, but I think it's mainly caused by my having reduced my 'performance-shyness' problems through just relaxing - and I notice that the same thing has happened with all the different instruments I play, supporting my theory.  It's almost as if getting older has made me realise that I ain't going to improve my technique much from now on, so I might as well relax about it (and that, lo and behold and wha-hey, was actually the key to improving my technique all along!)
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Graham Spencer

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Re: Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2013, 05:31:19 PM »

  I find that rehearsing a tune once (or more until you've got it right) just before you perform it live is a very useful technique, because for me it has the effect of 're-cementing' the right patterns in my memory.

That's interesting, Chris, because I find just the opposite; for some reason, I tend to play tunes I've rehearsed 2 or 3 days prior to a performance better than ones I've run through within 24 hours of a gig. I did an open mic night just before Christmas, with no rehearsal and not deciding what I was going to play until about 20 minutes before I went on.  I astonished myself with how well the 2 sets went, and friends in the audience remarked (kindly) that it was the best they'd heard me play.  Funny old thing, the sub-conscious........

Graham
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Chris Brimley

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Re: Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2013, 05:53:23 PM »

Graham, that is very interesting, as you say!  Maybe some other factor is at work, and both of us have found something that works psychologically for ourselves, and that is why we are confident, so therefore we get it right?
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Graham Spencer

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Re: Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2013, 06:42:52 PM »

Graham, that is very interesting, as you say!  Maybe some other factor is at work, and both of us have found something that works psychologically for ourselves, and that is why we are confident, so therefore we get it right?

Absolutely, Chris - horses for courses, as has been said so many times here.  There's no "right" or "wrong" way - whatever works for you.

Take care
Graham
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AirTime

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Re: Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2013, 06:50:26 PM »

Quote
Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????

I feel your pain. It is a most exasperating thing.

As a newcomer to the box, my theory is: the melodeon is a simple instrument ergonomically & musically. As such, it is relatively easy to pick up & start playing a few tunes within a fairly short period of time. However, "playing" & "playing without mistakes" are two completely different things! I get a lot of pleasure learning a variety of tunes for myself, when "mistakes" don't really matter as I'm focused on enjoying the musicality of the tune itself. Playing for other people though, or even for the video cam, is an entirely different matter. I find it takes A LOT of repetition to reach the point where I can play a tune confidently enough to be able to play it through consistently with no (or very minor) mistakes.

I suspect that the majority of box players play by ear (ie. memory) rather than music, so there's no "guide" to keeping on track. I don't know about anybody else, but I play tunes by learning the inherent "pattern" - the rhythm of push/pull, button & row - that is particular to each tune. With a lot of different "patterns" floating around in my subconscious, it is easy to go for the wrong one in the heat of the moment!

I'm assuming (hoping!), that with more time & experience, not only will the mechanics of playing get easier & easier, but the "patterns" will become ingrained in a more fundamental way.
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Mike Hirst

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Re: Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2013, 07:02:11 PM »

The sagely voice of Neil Young poses the same question on the album Ragged Glory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvRmBUEwtZg

Melodeon version, anyone?
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Andrew Shead

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Re: Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2013, 07:48:18 PM »

Mistakes just add interest to the performance. As a rank beginner, I've found that melodeon face distracts the audience sufficiently to allow the mistakes to pass. The worst thing you can do is to draw attention to any mistakes by stopping or hesitating.

Last November, shortly after I took delivery of my box, I recorded Happy Birthday for my sister. Before sending the recording, I used Audacity to remove an unfortunate hesitation that upset the rhythm, but apart from that all went well. My sister shrieked with laughter at the spectacle of my internal struggle with the instrument and missed the mistakes.

I've found that playing in front of a camera is good practice. I just keep going until I've got something passable. Anyway, I like the fun and challenge, it keeps one's wits burnished.

Bottom line: Relax and don't worry about it. Have fun.

Edit: In my hurry to post this, I conflated two recordings I did of the tune for two persons, one audio and the other video. I edited the audio version. Here's the video for your amusement:

http://awd-s.smugmug.com/share/N915hH23MHRps

I got a lot mileage out of this first tune.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 03:03:34 AM by Andrew Shead »
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Keithypete.

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Re: Why do I KEEP making mistakes???????
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2013, 08:15:56 PM »

Thanks for all the replies, support & advice, great stuff.

I've been doing some long hours - early starts mainly, and am pretty tired, so practice has become a bit of a chore. Probably better to not practice until I feel like it.
I've managed to more or less learn several new tunes, by ear, at sessions recently, so there are some positives.

Perhaps I'll get myself a copy of The Inner game of music, safe in the knowledge that reading it won't make me a better musician, anymore than owning a flashy, expensive box will.
I was told years ago "Practice doesn't make perfect - Practice makes PERMANENT." Which I took to mean get it right - then nail it on.
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