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Author Topic: Melodeon Jazz  (Read 9125 times)

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pikey

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Re: Melodeon Jazz
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2013, 07:44:55 PM »

http://boutique.mustradem.com

.   .. and the price hasn't risen! Early ones ( at the bottom) are IMHO the best, and a bargain at 12 Eu even at present exchange rate  :|glug

Much of the current Mustradem output puts me in mind of early Gong (Angels Egg/Flying Teapot/Camembert Electique). Fohat Digs Holes in Space for TOTM?

Yes please ! Planet gong...........
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boisterous budgie

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Re: Melodeon Jazz
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2013, 09:37:10 PM »

I once heard Thierry Pinson and some other guy playing very cool jazz stuff @ damada. This is the man, but can't find anything really jazzy on youtube  ???:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjDfoJH6KoM&playnext=1&list=PLD83B80EB177FDDA1&feature=results_video
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smiley

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Re: Melodeon Jazz
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2013, 10:23:24 PM »

no survey of diatonic accordion iprov would be complete without mentioning Hermeto Pascoal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxh6gbohJLs
Thanks for the link to this Brazilian genius of the melodeon, Mike.

About a minute into the video [after the fastest passage I've ever heard on a melodeon] he plays a catchy latin rhythmic progression on his G/C basses that's got me spellbound. After repeated viewings I've got the basic idea but can anyone explain what he's doing and (ideally) point to a tutorial on what he's actually playing there?
The riff reminds me a bit of the rhythm to 'La Bamba'.

thanks, Ian
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KLR

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Re: Melodeon Jazz
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2013, 08:53:36 PM »

I'll look into Peter Browne. Hopefully I can find an album on amazon or somewhere similar.
He's on a track or two of Oisin McAuley's album, he doesn't have a solo album out yet. Here's a great clip of himself and Tony Byrne playing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJxjAh25Y_Q

I prefer this one:  Peter Browne and Tim Edey - The Harcourt Hotel, Dublin. 13.09.10 - YouTube.  Reels but gets really out there harmonically/rhythmically at times.  Peter's instructional DVD has lots of tunes going by too, he seems in a bit of a hurry to get through demonstrating another triplet you can practice so he can knock out another number.  You'll pick up a lifetime of things to practice watching that one. 
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hubert

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Re: Melodeon Jazz
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2013, 09:17:40 PM »

would this be classed as jazz? I think it is rather good...Hubert
http://youtu.be/-L8bFGr2i64
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Cooper

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Re: Melodeon Jazz
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2013, 11:05:02 PM »

I am surprised nobody mentioned Anne Niepold yet,
:-)
W
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Melodeon Jazz
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2013, 11:35:41 PM »

I wouldn't personally call any on the last three videos offered "jazz" the bearded Brazilian is perhaps nearest to an improvised line (who knows?) but it suspect he too is performing a well practiced piece. The two Irish videos see to me to have all the signs of theme and variations, again well rehearsed in  advance.  But yes, it is very good :D

Lets not confuse improvisation and jazz. I see improvisation as the wider term, the point where your music sets off on a path you've never trodden before. That could be "anything", not necessarily even "notes". In practice you do  tend to recycle old motifs, explore modal variations that you've explored before, or even quote from other tunes. Whatever. But the "attitude" should include a blank musical canvass .. when you set off

Jazz? tends to be improvisation applied to some very "classic" initial tune, be that Autumn Leaves, Georgia Brown or some Blues staple. In the clubs they have (fat) books and not infrequently repeat the lines improvised by the masters Davis, Armstrong, Grapelli, whatever. Some frankly read the notes! The better they are, the more originality. The best can again be superb.

We saw some improvisation from the "samurai" in 2010/11. Again some seemed a bit "practiced" and was very similar on their CD. I felt Markku Lepistö produced the most unexpected music, followed by Didier Loloy and Bruno le Tron. The others, well it as very good, but seemed practiced.

There's a really good YouTube somewhere of Time Edey and Brendan Power jamming together. I can't find it. Looks a total one off, and they respond to each other sensitively as they go along. I'd call that jazz in our terms. Anyone able to find the video?
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KLR

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Re: Melodeon Jazz
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2013, 02:21:42 AM »

I wouldn't personally call any on the last three videos offered "jazz" the bearded Brazilian is perhaps nearest to an improvised line (who knows?) but it suspect he too is performing a well practiced piece. The two Irish videos see to me to have all the signs of theme and variations, again well rehearsed in  advance.  But yes, it is very good :D

Not sure what you're getting at here.  Most any serious practitioner of Irish music puts spontaneity into the variations they play, they wouldn't bother to learn them in the first place otherwise.  Much of this is "stock" movements and certainly isn't going off into chromatic territory in general but no one rehearses every variation they play in sequence in advance, that's just daft.  Browne is about as extreme as they come in this music so I figured this video would fit in.  If you heard him play these exact same tunes again the variations would be wholly different.
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Etienne

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Re: Melodeon Jazz
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2013, 01:10:53 PM »

Have also used the opportunity of some time off work to put my previous spreadsheet scale finder onto the web as http://squeezebox.chrisryall.net. Still a few buggettes, but already it will highlight all the common impro scales on any box. Needs more testing please!
Wow ! What a usefull tool, thanks a lot for this.
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Etienne

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Re: Melodeon Jazz
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2013, 01:21:30 PM »

would this be classed as jazz? I think it is rather good...Hubert
http://youtu.be/-L8bFGr2i64
For me it's sounds like a good old musette with a delightful irish accent, and it's really good.
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LDbosca

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Re: Melodeon Jazz
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2013, 01:39:34 PM »

would this be classed as jazz? I think it is rather good...Hubert
http://youtu.be/-L8bFGr2i64
For me it's sounds like a good old musette with a delightful irish accent, and it's really good.

Thanks lads, for me that video's a bit all over the place but glad ye like it.

Chris Ryall

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Re: Melodeon Jazz
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2013, 09:00:19 AM »

May I offer in this (historical) conversation between Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie as to what jazz "is"

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsBC5C5ERho

As is the nature of "Youtubers", the poster has added a video overlay, but  actually very apposite to what we are discussing. True jazz on melodeon seems to be very rare, but if anyone wants to go back to this old field recording from the hills above Grenoble, Aug 2011 it shows what can be done in the way of a "break" (the music is on download MP3s). They term it "impro", not "jazz".  But I've seen the same people ask for a run of chords from the audience (a little negotiation permitted), and just set off ...
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Gromit

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Re: Melodeon Jazz
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2013, 10:01:13 AM »

Nice thread I've heard some good stuff that I wouldn't usually come across - love this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh2jDhc6nB0

Anyone know how that box would be tuned??
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george garside

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Re: Melodeon Jazz
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2013, 10:54:31 AM »

I wouldn't know how to define 'jazz''  and have never knowingly attempted to play any  until very recently.   

The usual church hall type of barndance with about 80 or 90 punters  and a caller (supplied by them) who couldn't    It didn't work and was going down the pan fast  and then somebody shouted out ' 'can't you play something we can jive to!''   My first  inner reaction was 'oh shit'  and then I remebered listening to a trad jass band playing  at an outdoor event  that had resulted in spontaneous jiving  by several people.

To cut a long story short I launched into Down by the riverside, Puttin on the style and saints go marching in  shoving in extra notes here & there (and probably missing as many out as I could only remember an approximation of the tune)  and jumping from one octave to the other and within minutes the floor was absolutely full of dancers  who showed no signs of  flagging .  I was 'on the row' on  a 3 voice serenelli salterello together with a pianist & fidler, neither of whom had played 'jive' music.

neccessity is the mother of invention etc etc

george ( who can play for jiving but didn't know it) ;D
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Melodeon Jazz
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2013, 11:43:03 AM »

The classic jazzer puts his £4000 instrument in the boot of a £400 car to drive 40 miles to a £40 gig ;)

Exaggeration of course, but Norbert's (ex)wife Valerie once told me in no uncertain terms of the difficulties in bringing up children on the income from marginal musicianship. You really do need a "day job". Happy to see he has a modern car now, gets over to the Americas, but its a very hard road to travel.

Those accordions are G/C*/accs where the middle C* row had a G#. It's 3rd mode of A harmonic minor, there to make the box more chromatic. They set it up themselves with Bertrand Gaillard, but it's now a standard option with several makers (including Castagnari for the past 2 years).

In Gromit's video, the long Pignol improvisation is actually nearly all on the middle pull main scale of D minor, flexing the odd 2,4 and 6th note as the feeling takes him but never really going "blue". I guess that's another thing that makes it improvisation rather than jazz. These guys aren't fond of mainstream jazz and will take the p1ss out of  p'tit jazz club du coin with guitarists hitting fast and complex chord riffs, two or more per bar. IMHO the lyricism of the mazurka reflects that philosophy. As with the modal jazz movement in early 60s "it's about" melody.
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Gromit

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Re: Melodeon Jazz
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2013, 04:24:54 PM »

Quote
Jazz? tends to be improvisation applied to some very "classic" initial tune, be that Autumn Leaves, Georgia Brown or some Blues staple

Unless I've misunderstood I'm not sure I'd agree with that unless you are saying that stuff like "free jazz" isn't jazz.

I haven't heard much of todays jazz being based on old or new classics - most of it starts with a tune or motif and then goes bananas or in the case of free jazz they dispense with the tune/motif and go straight into the bonkers stuff.

Isn't jazz mainly defined as being improvised music.
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LDbosca

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Re: Melodeon Jazz
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2013, 04:56:57 PM »

As is the nature of "Youtubers", the poster has added a video overlay, but  actually very apposite to what we are discussing. True jazz on melodeon seems to be very rare, but if anyone wants to go back to this old field recording from the hills above Grenoble, Aug 2011 it shows what can be done in the way of a "break" (the music is on download MP3s). They term it "impro", not "jazz".  But I've seen the same people ask for a run of chords from the audience (a little negotiation permitted), and just set off ...

Here's some "true" jazz (I think!) on melodeon for those interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJxjAh25Y_Q

Peter's done a bit of this sort of stuff - songbook tunes, Chick Corea tunes etc. but this is the only one online I think.

KLR

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Re: Melodeon Jazz
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2013, 11:18:24 PM »

The classic jazzer puts his £4000 instrument in the boot of a £400 car to drive 40 miles to a £40 gig ;)

Given where you're headed there mathematically shouldn't that be a £4 gig? 

Anyway here's another quip - did I read this one here?  "Rock is 4 chords played to thousands of people.  Jazz is thousands of chords played for 4 people."   ::) 
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**DTN**

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Re: Melodeon Jazz
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2013, 11:46:33 PM »

Throw in a bit from the rhythm master Remco Sietsema  ...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFp-aabd2ME
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Melodeon Jazz
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2013, 08:18:08 AM »

... Isn't jazz mainly defined as being improvised music?

Very slippery isn't it? It's the Grenoble clique themselves who say that the stuff they do "isn't jazz", but I think that is partly in reaction to some of the stuff that "is". eg modern Norwegian modal jazz players would be entirely happy with a lot of what they do

What are elements?  Some form of motif, developing to free improvisation is definitely in there. I'd say too that it's not a solo activity, that the musicians need to respond to each other. To "go bananas" breaks v plain honest "Granny Smith" impro within scale is I think merely a measure of the extent to which you play "out" of the current chord. Both are equally valid improvisations.

Most fundamental is the need to listen to the other players in your group, respond to their music and foster it. That quiet whistle player in the corner wants a go .. give a non verbal signal (ideally musical) and then quieten your own play to let him say his piece. Soften the melody to chords or just the "in chord" notes. Make space; accept variation. Under no circumstances force medley into a different tune  :-\ just as this one is getting interesting! :'(

[post split as chords seem a separate issue]
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 08:29:31 AM by Chris Ryall »
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