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Author Topic: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots  (Read 4487 times)

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Strigulino

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Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« on: March 07, 2013, 01:25:42 PM »

I've just had a very interesting email conversation with the developer of Spectral Efficiency, who do various music apps for iOS.  Specifically, they do a range of apps to help train sight-reading.  One in particular called Note Hitter (there is a Lite version if you wish to try) was of great interest to me as there are a few accordion calibrations pre-set, and the idea is that notes appear on the stave and you have the play the respective note on your instrument and if you get it right, the notes magically disappear.  A fun little game, and makes you learn about what notes go where on the dots.  Reminds me of Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing or Typing of the Dead, if any of you remember those.

Anyway, we had a little conversation about melodeons and concertinas.  He seems like a very willing chap who replies quickly, and I've sent him a bit of an introduction to melodeons, anglo concertinas and what notes they are able to play.  Of course, the whole layout/accidental/low notes/2.5 rows/DG/BC/CF and all that jazz issues may cause problems.  I mooted the idea that it might be possible for you to have a user-defined instrument layout, where you play all the notes you can achieve to the app and then it saves that as an instrument - we shall see what they say to the possibility of coding that.

In any case, I think you can set the app to only test you on certain scales and arpeggios, so there's nothing to stop you from having a go of it and setting it to Accordion and only doing D and G major scales. 

But yes, apps that show promise, and I am in discussions with the developer to make it more diatonic-friendly.

/edit I did also have an idea that I put to him for another app where you can paste in an ABC and then test yourself playing along to it, seeing as sound analysis seems to be his bag.  That might involve a lot of work though, but it would be a nice app if he can code it. 
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 01:57:43 PM by Strigulino »
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The Strig

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Strigulino

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2013, 02:53:23 PM »

Further to previous, Note Hitter may be slightly problematic if you don't have accidentals, as it is set up as a game where you unlock new scales to attempt when you have successfully done others - seeing as my Morgane has no F natural, I doubt I'm going to get past the C Major level.  I've told them about this, so hopefully some kind of diatonic instrument setting may become available in future.

Another app called Scale Helper looks more melodon-friendly off the peg, in that you can set a "syllabus" of scales and arpeggios that you want to train.  So you could just pick D and G major scales, arpeggios, scales in thirds, tell it how many octaves you want etc and just ask it to give you those. 

There's a third app called Play Scales that seems to be a cut-down version of Scale Helper, and also some similar apps that are for voice training. 

Of course, the apps as they stand may be of great interest to those that play chromatic instruments like fiddle, PA, B/C melodeon, concertina etc. 
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 02:58:05 PM by Strigulino »
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The Strig

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Pets:  Two cats, one husband, a D/G Hohner Morgane, a C/F Liliput, a dark and mysterious anglo concertina, a Streb, a Giordy...

deltasalmon

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2013, 03:02:51 PM »

Note Hitter and Play Scales appear to be iOS only but ScaleHelper is available for android.

I will have to try it later but this seems really interesting. I posted here earlier with interest in learning scales less typically found in folk/trad.

As someone who has attempted to play fiddle this seems like a great idea for fiddle if the software was accurate enough not only to tell you what note you're playing but if it could also tell you how out of tune you are, if your finger was slightly placed further or closer to the bridge than it should have been.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2013, 03:13:30 PM »

Please could you point him at http://chrisryall.net/chords

The text in the edit box for each preset layout is in a loosely parsed format "rodec" distend to be part of a wider XML description of a squeezebox. "Loosely"  in that a row of rodec is a row on the instrument and that the tokens describe voicing and any off row positional shift* as prefixes to the note token rather than involving any finer grained layers of XML.

Heres the rodec for a B/C box

<rodec>
   → push↓ → ©  ºC  ©  ºF
   →→→→ →→   ©  ºA  ©  ºA♯
   → ºE  ºG  ¹C  ¹E  ¹G  ²C  ²E  ²G  ³C  ³E
   ºD♯ ºF♯ ¹B  ¹D♯ ¹F♯ ²B  ²D♯ ²F♯ ³B  ³D♯ ³F♯
   =
   → pull↓ → ©  ºG  ©  ºC
   →→→→ →→   ©  ºD  ©  ºA♯
   → ºA  ºB  ¹D  ¹F  ²A  ²B  ²D  ²F  ³A  ³B
   ºG♯ ¹A♯ ¹C♯ ¹E  ¹G♯ ²A♯ ²C♯ ²E  ²G♯ ³A♯ ³C♯
</rodec>

If he ignores the arrows and chord symbols he is left with the layout, prefixed by octave number for each note.  My octaves start at A as thsi was the lowest note I could sample - but converting to C start is pretty trivial. 

I've got 26 layouts coded now. This includes several concertinas (the "↓" etc nudge allows them to curve the rows!)

Simon same web page .. click your favourite layout and select A lydian ♭7 .. should show you how the Homeric jazz scale lies on the instrument. Basically some are trivally easy, some are dogs!  We're back to "playing the instrument in its sweet spot", as ever  ;)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 03:32:41 PM by Chris Ryall »
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2013, 03:32:13 PM »

Just as a quick fix solution - I use the Strobosoft 'tuner' recommended here by Theo and others. 

I guess it would be pretty trivial to set up an app/web page/excel macro whatever to display musical notes in ABC♭/♯, or stave format randomly at say 10 second intervals?  If you do this, respond on instrument, and run Strobosoft at the same time ... it does the job. As Strobosoft is accurate to a "cent" or so it would also solve Simon's violin problem.  Just an idea  :|glug
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Strigulino

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2013, 03:52:46 PM »

I'll point him to this thread and to Chris' website as resources for ideas.  As I say, he seems to be someone who has come up with a way of getting phones to listen to instruments and work out what notes they are playing, who is keen for ways to turn this into useful apps.  Defininitely someone to introduce to the wonders of melodeons, especially seeing as he's already got accordions built-in.  :D
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The Strig

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Pets:  Two cats, one husband, a D/G Hohner Morgane, a C/F Liliput, a dark and mysterious anglo concertina, a Streb, a Giordy...

Strigulino

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2013, 03:56:43 PM »

Incidentally Chris, I still get "HTTP 406 Not Acceptable" on IE7 on your website.  Note that this is not my PC so I have no control over what rubbish I have to use to connect to the web.  :(
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The Strig

"World-famous poker player. Give her a good poker and she'll play any tune you like." - The Goon Show
Pets:  Two cats, one husband, a D/G Hohner Morgane, a C/F Liliput, a dark and mysterious anglo concertina, a Streb, a Giordy...

Strigulino

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2013, 04:10:08 PM »

Just got a reply on the fiddle question from the dev - "Yes, it shows the intonation of the notes played.  Violinists certainly find it useful".
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The Strig

"World-famous poker player. Give her a good poker and she'll play any tune you like." - The Goon Show
Pets:  Two cats, one husband, a D/G Hohner Morgane, a C/F Liliput, a dark and mysterious anglo concertina, a Streb, a Giordy...

Chris Ryall

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2013, 04:10:30 PM »

Almost certainly heritage firewall programming in your organisation. I'm afraid I can do nothing about it. It may pick up that the 'script' uses the javascript (perfectly legal) string.replace() method.  Some buggers used this to 'make space' for malware code about 8 years ago. I imagine that loophole is well plugged by now and would respectfully point out that MSIE is presently in version 10!

I have had no problem using the page on various (up to date) browsers on home PC, on iPad or Iphone, or from behind an NHS firewall.
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Strigulino

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2013, 04:17:50 PM »

I'm behind an NHS firewall here too - a particularly paranoid one.  It blocks you looking at the Wikipedia article on the word "sexton", for example.  Better safe than sorry, I suppose.

They are aware that IE7 is supported by practically nobody these days and are in the process of upgrades, but it is a very large organisation and there are a lot of PCs to get through.  It will come.

I'm a Firefox bunny at home.  I wish I could have it here.  :(
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The Strig

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Pets:  Two cats, one husband, a D/G Hohner Morgane, a C/F Liliput, a dark and mysterious anglo concertina, a Streb, a Giordy...

deltasalmon

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2013, 04:22:35 PM »

Unfortunately, Chris' website is blocked for me at work as well.

The only interesting part is that the reason that comes up is that its listed in the category: Weapons.

What exactly is on this website....  ;)
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Sean McGinnis
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Strigulino

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2013, 04:28:38 PM »

I suppose you could categorise the melodeon as an offensive weapon, in the wrong hands...
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The Strig

"World-famous poker player. Give her a good poker and she'll play any tune you like." - The Goon Show
Pets:  Two cats, one husband, a D/G Hohner Morgane, a C/F Liliput, a dark and mysterious anglo concertina, a Streb, a Giordy...

Chris Ryall

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2013, 06:01:59 PM »

Weird! I tried some text seaches on the code:  gun rifle cannon AK45 grenade nuclear dagger knife semtex tnt guncotton and even melodeonista were negative.  Laden was absent, though I must report that "bin" found "describe"  ;) 

   "Rocket" found "It's not rocket science"  :-\ and "sword" found "MSword"  :Ph

Ponder, ponder: could it be something applied to the domain? I tried a google meta-term search on my whole domain using the search string "~weapon site:chrisryall.net"  I have to confess that in my early days as a web-master I did a little project on the Civil War confederate raider "Alabama", built down the road at Lairds, and subject of a famous sea chanty.  {= one hit}

I'm also a reference site for "weak two pre-empts" in the fine card game of Contract Bridge. These are designed to sow confusion amongst one's opponents in a tournament and are thus described in suitably aggressive language. {= 3 hits}

As a last chance in this - there's a hidden link to my son's nascent business http://ryallarmouries.co.uk Young Fred makes mediaeval armour, and will encase you in bespoke 3mm steel for a very reasonable fee. Load's of hits in there, but it's a different domain (albeit also on Anahata's server)

suggest you try the armouries link. If that loads, but melodeon explorer is still blocked ..  ... ???

Strigulino I code it and test on firefox, because of it's excellent support for the document object module, and that (unlike MSIE) it is W3 standards compliant. Do you have any issue there? 

« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 06:06:00 PM by Chris Ryall »
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deltasalmon

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2013, 06:05:32 PM »

Armouries link works. Melodeon Explorer still considered a weapon...
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Strigulino

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2013, 06:07:49 PM »

Armouries doesn't work for me.  It's the kind of vague text thing they would block.  As I said before, the Wiki on the church official known as a "sexton" is blocked.

Back to the apps - I will use the app this evening to analyse what notes my two boxes are physically able to play and report back to him.  My hope is that it should be possible to select "melodeon" or "concertina" as an instrument, and then perform a "calibration" analysis in which you play all the notes you have available, and the app is then able to remove notes and scales that are not possible from the exercises it gives you.  I will suggest it, and I hope it is not too difficult to code.  Either that or just the most common melodeon layouts are hard-coded. 

It works for me at home and on my phone, so I think it is a firewall thing.
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The Strig

"World-famous poker player. Give her a good poker and she'll play any tune you like." - The Goon Show
Pets:  Two cats, one husband, a D/G Hohner Morgane, a C/F Liliput, a dark and mysterious anglo concertina, a Streb, a Giordy...

Chris Ryall

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2013, 06:08:23 PM »

Wacky!  Here's a typical graphic from the armouries  :|glug



BTW - it works on my mobile phone  ;) Strigulino the instrument  "library" is in http://chrisryall.net/chords/library.xml  It's the only part that displays better in MSIE  (Firefox doesn't respect the schema's instruction to preserve newlines)

« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 06:13:27 PM by Chris Ryall »
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Anahata

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2013, 06:23:14 PM »

"HTTP 406 Not Acceptable" is usually about more boring things like encoding, character sets and the like, not about spam-blocking trigger words in the content.

I've been looking those numbers up today, as it happens: I was writing some code for a web server. I came up with 403 "Forbidden" for the situation I wanted to cover, which was trying to upload a file to an embedded  server that hadn't a file system or directory assigned for storing it.

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Strigulino

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2013, 06:53:03 PM »

Can't see the library.  In fact, chrisryall.net doesn't work either.

No matter.  It shall just have to wait until I get home.
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The Strig

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Pets:  Two cats, one husband, a D/G Hohner Morgane, a C/F Liliput, a dark and mysterious anglo concertina, a Streb, a Giordy...

sue higham

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2013, 06:55:34 PM »

I’ve been reading this thread with varying degrees of fascination, admiration for those who can understand computers, and utter bewilderment!

As a relative newcomer to the fiddle I can see that an app might just be useful for intonation; however, for that instrument I find the thing that helps me most is to ‘karioke’ along to tunes playing on Windows Media Player which has the facility to slow down the music without losing pitch.   8)

This also has the unparalleled benefit of educating my ears!!  ;D

My primary instrument is melodeon - and it is in this respect that I’m completely at a loss to understand how any sort of ‘app’ could help. You push a button and the right note comes out – in tune!! Wow!!  (Modest though I am  :|bl  I have to confess that, as a box player, I am a very much appreciated ‘human tuner’ at our local session – incredibly valued  by the fiddlers, ringing stringers and fluters!!)

If the idea is to help you to learn tunes, then isn’t it over complicating the procedure if you have to learn how to use a computerised facility first?  :Ph   Why slow yourself up by learning two things when you can learn one?

Cut out the middle man!!   ;)

Right …  :Ph   Head back below parapet   :-*
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YorkieKen

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2013, 07:00:48 PM »

What a very sensible post Sue, I'm sure you and I would get on like a house on fire  >:E keep it simple I say, those great musicians from past years didn't have all these gizmo's to aid there learning!  (:)
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