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Author Topic: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots  (Read 4488 times)

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malcolmbebb

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2013, 07:39:59 PM »

I rather suspect Sue might have missed the point.

I rather suspect that most of us have a comfort zone, where we can hit notes pretty easily. But there are other notes, that we use less often, that we have to stop and think about.   ???
My understanding is that these apps are intended as a practice aid to hitting these notes, as part of a more general aid to sight reading music.

Or, as Strig stated in her original post: "Specifically, they do a range of apps to help train sight-reading." which I thought gave quite a useful clue.   ::)

If you don't read music, I agree that these apps won't be much use. And it appears that they are not intended to help you learn tunes, at least not directly.

But, since I would like to improves my sight reading especially on the more dusty notes, I too am interested to hear more.
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Strigulino

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2013, 08:12:21 PM »

What he said. Playing by ear is fine alone or in a session, but if you find yourself in a group of friends with guitars and keyboards who say "Hey, can you play Tune X?", and the dots or note names are put in front of you, I'd like to be able to just play it without having to worry about where the accidentals are, or ask them to change key for my benefit and cause issues to singers.

I just feel I should know what notes are where, on demand, without having to refer to keyboard layouts.

By the way, I play mainly by ear, but I do have a musical background, so I feel a space where I have knowledge on flute or keyboard that I don't have with a melodeon. Dots are not for everyone, but it's a language I speak, albeit badly. ;)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 08:17:22 PM by Strigulino »
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The Strig

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Chris Ryall

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2013, 08:27:49 PM »

Can't see the library.  In fact, chrisryall.net doesn't work either.

It's getting a bit clearer. AFAIK (Anahata?) the http 403 error is not site generated and was presumably substituted by your "proxy"  Something has upset it and the entire domain would seem to be on a blacklist. I can only speculate as to what.  Our hospital net nanny blocks even .NHS addressed sites for using words liked "alcohol" (which was what they were all about) and choked on my use of "bitch" (as a verb) in an email.   The nitwits who set the parameters are that clever!

  Can assure you it's virus free, 100% text based, and all typed in by me (:)

I'm a "by ear" player, but similarly commend knowing the note on each button, as you suggest. If fact that's the basis of my gadget. Can do it myself now, and it took a while. I used playing scales to learn them. Since then, if I want a b9 in my A7 chord (suggesting Dm, rather than major next), I've a choice of Bb's, all on my outer row.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 08:37:10 PM by Chris Ryall »
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sue higham

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2013, 10:24:33 PM »

Quote
I'd like to be able to just play it without having to worry about where the accidentals are.  I just feel I should know what notes are where, on demand, without having to refer to keyboard layouts.

You're right Malcolm .... I have missed the point!  So ... this app is intended to teach you muscle memory? Spacial awareness?

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Strigulino

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2013, 10:42:40 PM »

Sort of, I suppose. More like touch-typing. The idea is that you see a note or interval or scale on the screen, and you try to play that note correctly without having to look or think about it. About learning where notes are on the keyboard, how far to jump from one note to another, that kind of thing.

Imagine if a computer keyboard was like a melodeon keyboard. The letters aren't written on the keys, and each key does two letters of the alphabet. Yes, you can play a tune by looking at a chart and/or banging around until you find the one you want, and that after a long while this will become second nature, but you may want to have structured practice with something saying Type "ABCDEFG" and rewarding you if you get it right.
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sue higham

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2013, 04:38:39 PM »

Hello Strig … I’m a touch typist as well, so I sort of get when you mean (I think).  Familiarising yourself with a querty meant repetitive exercises until the muscle memory kicked in, which was all very well on ;lkj, asdf, minimum, and any of the bog-standard alphabetical keys.  Despite that familiarity, though, there’s always the likelihood of a slight pause, or break in rhythm, when you have to hit a little used, mathematical, or other symbol.

I think it’ll be the same with tunes.  Despite repeated exercises of fitting in these odd notes etc, it doesn’t mean they’re going to appear in a tune in the same sequence as in the exercises.  So if you’re suddenly faced with a little used note in the middle of regular ones, when you’ve had the dots, or note names, of an unfamiliar tune stuck in front of you, it doesn’t mean you’ll automatically be able to hit the right one and keep the rhythm of the tune unbroken.  I don’t think ‘on demand’ exists in this situation.

Can’t help feeling it would be a lot simpler to thoroughly learn the tunes containing these odd notes, so you’re learning them in context.  I play by ear as my sight reading is very poor, and an absolute godsend here is a recording device. 

I play B/C – so it’s a given that I’m crossing the rows all the time for the tunes I play.  As you say, in standard key signatures muscle memory kicks in relatively easily.  Tunes in F though …. well, in theory you’re just crossing the rows as usual but it’s for a Bb, darn it – not an F# or G# or C# .  Now, why should that make any difference at all?  I don’t know why, but it did – and it used to really mess with my head!  I just adored those tunes in F though and the only way was to play them over and over until the pattern, pulse and rhythm went in – and it went in deep!  Reward!!

When someone asks if you can play X and you can’t … there’s nothing lost (and a lot of respect held for the tune) in saying ‘No … but if you play it and I like it I’ll go and learn it!’
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Strigulino

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2013, 04:47:21 PM »

Well yes - I mainly play by ear.  I play the chord, hum where the tune should start to myself, find that note and work it out from there.

However, as I say, there have been a few occasions where working from the dots would have been nice.  I also find myself trying to learn two tunes for Melodeons and More and despite my best efforts, how they go will not stay in my head.  So being able to use the sheet music and play it from that would be helpful in this eventuality also.

As Malc says, dots are not for everyone.  But for those who have, like me, a rather shonky grasp of the dots and would like to improve their grasp of the language, this may well be useful.
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The Strig

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Anahata

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2013, 06:12:40 PM »

Familiarising yourself with a querty meant repetitive exercises until the muscle memory kicked in, which was all very well on ;lkj, asdf, minimum, and any of the bog-standard alphabetical keys.  Despite that familiarity, though, there’s always the likelihood of a slight pause, or break in rhythm, when you have to hit a little used, mathematical, or other symbol.

I think it’ll be the same with tunes.  Despite repeated exercises of fitting in these odd notes etc, it doesn’t mean they’re going to appear in a tune in the same sequence as in the exercises.

I do read music, and it true that the above happens. Also music has little patterns of notes that come up again and again like words that you get used to typing/playing, and when you come to read something that doesn't follow a familiar patterns, it is harder to do. As would be typing in a foreign language, or scrambled data that isn't in any language.

All of that doesn't mean however, that it's not worth learning to do.

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sue higham

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2013, 12:11:52 PM »

I think someone else might have missed the point here. My responses to Strig’s post have been related to this potential ‘app’ thingy! 

They’ve not been about the merits of learning to read the dots - that’s always useful and is a one of our two historically tried and tested methods of learning the notes in the context of a tune – not in an exercise (although Bach is unmatched in combining the two!)

So … Reading? Listening?  Take your pick. 

I'd recommend you save your hard earned money and make full use of the free and unbeatable apps that you were born with ;)  :-*
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syale

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Re: Potentially useful apps for learning the dots
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2013, 09:58:46 PM »

Read this thread and happened on this whilst searching for something else:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/howard/bs-md-ho-suspicious-package-20120803,0,7541265.story
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