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[Hasse]

Hi Chris, hope you understand that my statement wasn't directed at you, but at this intire thread and the direction it was taking. Tried in my first post to say the same, but I was unclear as usual!

one thing is clear though - playing diatonic accordion is a superior skill!   


Edit:spelling...!

[Chris Brimley]

Chris, IMO your original quoted statement has withstood the test of debate!

[Bobtheboat]

Interestingly, after reading some of the earlier 'continental' style bashers, I went and had a look at Volume 1 of the Pignol and Milleret tutor and found (as i'd remembered) that it focused entirely on push/pull technique for the greater part of the book and emphasised the importance of competence in both push/pull and cross row techniques.
Also I would assert that to describe all the many and various styles of music from Europe as 'continental' is to paint with rather too broad a brush.
Bob

[Lester]

Also I would assert that to describe all the many and various styles of music from Europe as 'continental' is to paint with rather too wide a brush.
Bob

Similarly to paint all 'English' styles as one requires a similarly sized brush!

[Bobtheboat]

Word! (As the yoof say......or at least did in the 80's!) Bob

[Nick Collis Bird]

I really can't see what the fuss is all about! Here's a few sayings or cliches.
Each to his own.
One man's meat is another man's poison .
Many hands make cross rowing easier, no I didn't mean that one.
They're are many ways to skin a cat.
All roads lead to Rome
And,
All the world is queer, 'cept thou and me, and thou's a little queer.

Does it really matter as long as the "music" keeps coming.

[hubert]

that sums it up.....hubert

[YorkieKen]

I really can't see what the fuss is all about! Here's a few sayings or cliches.
Each to his own.
One man's meat is another man's poison .
Many hands make cross rowing easier, no I didn't mean that one.
They're are many ways to skin a cat.
All roads lead to Rome
And,
All the world is queer, 'cept thou and me, and thou's a little queer.

Does it really matter as long as the "music" keeps coming.

Spot on Nick! hopefully your comments will now put a stop to this silly thread and we can all get on with enjoying our music no matter how we play it. even on banjos! 

[MR Q]

Well I am pleased to here someone else might also be playing a banjo,as well as crossing rows.

[kenakordeon]

Interestingly, after reading some of the earlier 'continental' style bashers, I went and had a look at Volume 1 of the Pignol and Milleret tutor and found (as i'd remembered) that it focused entirely on push/pull technique for the greater part of the book and emphasised the importance of competence in both push/pull and cross row techniques.
Also I would assert that to describe all the many and various styles of music from Europe as 'continental' is to paint with rather too broad a brush.
Bob

I'm just thinking of getting a two-row.  The only reason I would, I think is because of its row crossing possibility, and having a G/C box in addition to my one-row D.  Are there any melodeon tutors/instructionals that emphasize the cross-row technique.  I already know the push-pull from learning to play the one-row.

I think any tunes played while riding in the backseat of a Lincoln  could be considered "continental."

Thanks for any advice.

ken

[Lost Alamos]

Interestingly, after reading some of the earlier 'continental' style bashers, I went and had a look at Volume 1 of the Pignol and Milleret tutor and found (as i'd remembered) that it focused entirely on push/pull technique for the greater part of the book and emphasised the importance of competence in both push/pull and cross row techniques.
Also I would assert that to describe all the many and various styles of music from Europe as 'continental' is to paint with rather too broad a brush.
Bob

I'm just thinking of getting a two-row.  The only reason I would, I think is because of its row crossing possibility, and having a G/C box in addition to my one-row D.  Are there any melodeon tutors/instructionals that emphasize the cross-row technique.  I already know the push-pull from learning to play the one-row.

I think any tunes played while riding in the backseat of a Lincoln  could be considered "continental."

Thanks for any advice.

ken

So Kenny, I will suggest a book for you that has'nt been mentioned here before. This book will give
you tunes from the provincies of France. Authors Fanny Lhotte and Laetitia Naudet [ Musiques pour danses de Bal Folk]. Published by Caruhel. This is Yann Dour's publisher. the book Tablatures/Partions/CD. 42 tunes for Dance. Fancais-English-Deutsch. This nothing like the pignol/milleret studies which I recommend if you want to study but this book by the two women who will give you tunes to learn immediatly in the cross row "and" push pull technique. I know you will like as I am sure others will too. It was something I bought back in 2002 so you might have to search hard for it but you will be rewarded.

[Chris Ryall]

I  got going (a few years before foreign travels) by picking a favourite simple minor key tune and trying to play as much of it as possible against a droned E bass. ie no push allowed unless a D. Anything off whistle or bagpipe tends to be good, commonly all within a single octave 

If you need to descend to say a low B just "steal" it off the bass with a bellows flick. Otherwise it'll generally work all on pull until you get to that D and have to again flick to push for that note. Inner row is generally preferred as you can often than conveniently flick to high E on the same button. But "experiment"

Important to keep in mind that some tunes will pass through C on the inner row (using natural E minor), others will need the C# outer row (using Dorian E minor).  They are different base scales and have a different feel. Trust your ears in that.

Once that's working, ideally a favourite tune of each type, go back to "on row" play and get so you can do either at will.Finally work up to mixing them at will during play. You've than made the step, skill for life 

I personally then went onto trying G major melodies (must be simple) against E drone. Adderbury "shooting" worked for me. Again ... Work up to mixing them at will. That's very useful as a general skill; there are thousands of tunes that can take a choice of G or Em harmony.  Hope that gets you started.

It's about a weeks work.  Yes there are books, but it ain't rocket science and the advantage of "own tunes" is that you are already half way there?

Health and Safety notice There is no "right" way. May contain nuts

[kenakordeon]

So Kenny, I will suggest a book for you that has'nt been mentioned here before. This book will give
you tunes from the provincies of France. Authors Fanny Lhotte and Laetitia Naudet [ Musiques pour danses de Bal Folk]. Published by Caruhel. This is Yann Dour's publisher. the book Tablatures/Partions/CD. 42 tunes for Dance. Fancais-English-Deutsch. This nothing like the pignol/milleret studies which I recommend if you want to study but this book by the two women who will give you tunes to learn immediatly in the cross row "and" push pull technique. I know you will like as I am sure others will too. It was something I bought back in 2002 so you might have to search hard for it but you will be rewarded.
[/quote]

Thank you for your advice.  Where can I purchase this book?

[kenakordeon]

Important to keep in mind that some tunes will pass through C on the inner row (using natural E minor), others will need the C# outer row (using Dorian E minor).  They are different base scales and have a different feel. Trust your ears in that.

On a G/C where is the C#?

[Chris Ryall]

Apologies. "moving" from D/G box ..

Your drone becomes Am and the "choice" note 6 in those primary minor scales is F v F#. The F# is the outer row one (Dorian Am). Your major to try out is C. I guess you might choose "something French" as favourite melody

C# becomes an "accidental"

[george garside]

This thread seems to have moved away from and exhausted its  original theme i.e.  ''row crossing is not a superior skill''  to  a perfectly valid discussion on  row crossing technique or something like that.   It would seem to me to be an idea  that those interested in developing or helping others to develop  row crossing skills  would benefit from a more specific  thread   ? ''row crossing  techniques '' or something like that

george

[kenakordeon]

Apologies. "moving" from D/G box ..

Your drone becomes Am and the "choice" note 6 in those primary minor scales is F v F#. The F# is the outer row one (Dorian Am). Your major to try out is C. I guess you might choose "something French" as favourite melody

C# becomes an "accidental"

Thank you.

[Etienne]

So Kenny, I will suggest a book for you that has'nt been mentioned here before. This book will give
you tunes from the provincies of France. Authors Fanny Lhotte and Laetitia Naudet [ Musiques pour danses de Bal Folk]. Published by Caruhel. This is Yann Dour's publisher. the book Tablatures/Partions/CD. 42 tunes for Dance. Fancais-English-Deutsch. This nothing like the pignol/milleret studies which I recommend if you want to study but this book by the two women who will give you tunes to learn immediatly in the cross row "and" push pull technique. I know you will like as I am sure others will too. It was something I bought back in 2002 so you might have to search hard for it but you will be rewarded.

Thank you for your advice.  Where can I purchase this book?
[/quote]

After a look at Caruhel website it seems like this book is no longer available, an alternative may be those published by "Trad magazine" that you can find easily from french shops like http://www.sonerien.com/ (i choose this one because i know their website is available in english language, i have no relation with them)
But the best (and cheapest) thing i can suggest is to take a look at sites with free tabs for melodeon like www.diato.org from Bernard Loffet or http://diato-amateurs.pagesperso-orange.fr/index.htm from Anicet Le Marre (that have some advice for beginners but available in french only). Ask if you want more links, there's a lot...

[kenakordeon]

After a look at Caruhel website it seems like this book is no longer available, an alternative may be those published by "Trad magazine" that you can find easily from french shops like http://www.sonerien.com/ (i choose this one because i know their website is available in english language, i have no relation with them)
But the best (and cheapest) thing i can suggest is to take a look at sites with free tabs for melodeon like www.diato.org from Bernard Loffet or http://diato-amateurs.pagesperso-orange.fr/index.htm from Anicet Le Marre (that have some advice for beginners but available in french only). Ask if you want more links, there's a lot...
[/quote]

Thank you.  Any other advice and links will be appreciated.  I'll be playing a G/C and mainly Breton and French tunes.

ken

[Ollie]

I really can't see what the fuss is all about! Here's a few sayings or cliches.
Each to his own.
One man's meat is another man's poison .
Many hands make cross rowing easier, no I didn't mean that one.
They're are many ways to skin a cat.
All roads lead to Rome
And,
All the world is queer, 'cept thou and me, and thou's a little queer.

Does it really matter as long as the "music" keeps coming.

Spot on Nick! hopefully your comments will now put a stop to this silly thread and we can all get on with enjoying our music no matter how we play it. even on banjos! 

I think this has been a really interesting and thought provoking thread - one of the best on here for a long time, and not at all silly*. It's a discussion about one of the fundamental techniques of playing the melodeon. Many things have been discussed that often go undiscussed, and I think this thread (once you sort the wheat from the chaff) is incredibly valuable to beginners.

*Better than bleedin' limericks...