Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: What is it that makes a box "characterful" and loved?  (Read 2606 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

rileycat

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 357
What is it that makes a box "characterful" and loved?
« on: March 12, 2013, 11:25:02 PM »

I'm regretting a comment I made in another thread, which inadvertently caused Theo 'exasperation,'(sorry Theo), so following his advice to start a new thread, here goes:-
 In Buy and Sell, Squeezy described his Loffet as lacking in 'character' and subsequently not one he chose to play a lot. Quote:-

 "As for the box itself, it's good quality through & through. But I have to say that despite this it is the most lacking in character of all my boxes. I don't know what makes an instrument seem alive in your hands - but to me, this Loffet just feels like a well made case filled with top end reeds - nothing more. Which is probably why it doesn't get played that much".

So whilst I feel I intuitively know exactly what he means, I wondered what it is that makes us choose one instrument over another one, which may play equally fluently/efficiently? Why is box X your favourite, despite it being a 1/4 of the price of box Y and 40 years older, etc?  You get the idea.  Can 'character' be described and if so, is it a commonly held feeling?  I sometimes wish I hadn't spent good money on good instruments only to find I just didn't 'like' them after a few months of playing!
I appreciate that finances always limit our choices, but within these limits we probably all have a preferred instrument which rewards our efforts with its 'character', which transcends playability alone, any thoughts?
Tony
Logged

squeezy

  • Quick starter (now lagging behind)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1288
  • Hohner Cornelia (mixte D/G/o&s)
    • www.johnspiers.co.uk
Re: What is it that makes a box "characterful" and loved?
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2013, 11:40:14 PM »

Hmmmm.  I did say that - and I hope it wasn't too hurtful to M. Loffet if he ever reads it.  It's true though for my particular box at least.

I think what often makes a difference is actually the ergonomics of a box - it's balance, weight, keyboard design and cross-sectional area of the bellows in particular.

But it is undeniably more than that too.  There is a level of physics involved in a box and it's reeds that is probably quantifiable if anyone has a massive amount of money to research it in enough depth - but we're talking about boxes here - there's no mass market!  So we're reduced to talking about it in terms reminiscent of alchemy and magic or the touch of a reed-genius or true craftsman.

I can't really add any more than that.  I own boxes of great character that are both hand-built and factory made.  I have also owned boxes that should be amazing given their build quality and components - but aren't ... again made by both artisans and factories.  I have a hunch about a few of the factors involved - but it is no more than a hunch based on the circumstantial evidence of playing a great many different instruments and inspecting them quite closely sometimes too.

In short ... I dunno ... but yes!
Logged
Squeezy

Sometimes wrong, sometimes right ... but always certain!

Guy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 721
  • Not quite enough melodeons....
    • Cats Claw
Re: What is it that makes a box "characterful" and loved?
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2013, 12:13:50 AM »

And it's not just different makers, sometimes it's different instruments by the same maker. I love my Loffet D/G, so when the chance to buy a 2.5 row in G/C came up I jumped at it...but never really got on with it, and kept finding myself going back to my little Saltarelle 2-voice G/C/F, which has less power and a much lighter sound. But it just feels right, and I've no real idea why.

I think it may be something to do with size, weight and balance for me (as Squeezy said, ergonomics) but the Loffet 2.5 was responsive, well-balanced, not very much bigger or heavier than either of the other boxes, and had a good sound....I had it for some months, so gave it a good try, but for some reason it just never became a box I picked up out of choice, so it had to move on to someone who'll hopefully enjoy it....

I guess this isn't helpful really....but I'm puzzled too. If I knew what it was that really made an instrument work for me, I'd be a lot happier. And a lot poorer too, probably.
Logged
Guy, in South Wales

Cats Claw, http://www.cats-claw.co.uk

arty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1443
Re: What is it that makes a box "characterful" and loved?
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2013, 07:32:11 AM »

I have my two Hohners, both about 80 years old and packed full of character.
They remind me of my old dog - she smelled awful, she growled, she farted, she would even bite you on a bad day but I loved her!

Logged
Pre-Pokerwork C/F, Castagnari Laura G/C, Beltuna Sara 3 A/D, Castagnari Sander Special D/G

ACE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 527
Re: What is it that makes a box "characterful" and loved?
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2013, 08:41:47 AM »

How about looking at your own character first, not the box. I have been in a session with my little mini and friends have remarked that the box really sings, they have a go on it and although played perfectly, it sounds wrong, looks wrong and also sits  awkward with the player. Even when I used to lug a huge paolo around it still had that va va voom.

Sadly the Roland just does not have the dynamics for me yet, but a few more outings might change my mind.
Logged
Saltarelle Horizon, Dino mini, Lachenal g/d anglo

Sage Herb

  • Steve Harrison
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 762
  • Slaithwaite, UK
    • The Black Box Band
Re: What is it that makes a box "characterful" and loved?
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2013, 08:43:10 AM »

I have a collection of Hohner Club 2s/ Erikas in a range of keys, which I use for song accompaniment. Easily the most 'characterful' amongst these is a purple perloid Club 2 in C/F that I bought on ebay a few years ago. It shows signs of having been manufactured when materials were getting short, so the casework corner fillets have corroded, as have the bellows corners. But it has great reeds (tuning tweaked by Theo just once) and a moderate tremolo against which Annie's voice sits beautifully. I have another (wooden) C/F Club 2 which is better for band work, but the purple perloid one is my absolute favourite and I wouldn't part with with it. Here's a rough recording:
https://soundcloud.com/sage-herb/death-of-parker

Steve
Logged
Hohner Erikas & Club 2s
Hohner gob-harps:
Vega Senator 5-string banjo; Alex Burns plectrum guitar

Black Box Band - www.theblackboxband.co.uk
Annie Dearman & Steve Harrison - www.dearmanharrison.co.uk
Phoenix - www.phoenixdanceband.co.uk
http://soundcloud.com/sage-herb

Nick Collis Bird

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3785
  • Been squeezing melodeons for over 48 years (badly)
Re: What is it that makes a box "characterful" and loved?
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2013, 10:01:44 AM »

This whole thread is very interesting. I think it might be psychological . Yes there are some boxes you pick up and they just don't do what you want them to, my first Pokerwork for instance, but I had just  worn it out and I think most of you know what happened to that!
   I was once an owner of a Bond Minicar and (don't laugh) that little machine just fitted me like a glove especially as you only needed a motorbike license to drive it. It never let me down. Since then I have had many cars, some "Top of the range" eg Mercedes Benz. But not one of them felt quite as good as that Bond. Throwaway thoughts, but I think I might have a point.
Logged
Has anyone heard of the song. “ Broken Alarm-clock Blues” ? It starts   “I woke up this Afternoon”

911377brian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1518
Re: What is it that makes a box "characterful" and loved?
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2013, 10:03:25 AM »

I've got four Hohner one rows, all made in the 1930's and to all intents and purposes the same, but the A box is the one that feels most comfortable and the one I go to automatically.I should say that the straps are identical, and to the casual eye the boxes are peas in a pod.... :||: :||: :||: :||: ???
Logged

Rob2Hook

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2278
  • Castagnaris, Hohners & Baffetti
Re: What is it that makes a box "characterful" and loved?
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2013, 11:16:43 AM »

I agree that a person must choose a box that suits them personally.  But also, one person have prefer different boxes in different situations.  I like Pokerworks, particularly when someone else is playing them.  My own is Chinese and as responsive as a dead fish, but there have been a couple I've borrowed which were great fun.  I like the DB BPII with its swing tuning, particularly as a morris box.  Playing outdoors it can be played so loud the reed pairs start to frequency lock and it really sings out, unfortunately at about that point the basses choke.  Nowadays I mostly use my Trilly outside the house as it cuts through most other sounds and still has the L reed adding some darker colour.  But at home, playing quietly to myself, I tend to pick up a favourite Hohner Club.

I suspect that the Loffet, famous for smooth tone and good action, just didn't respond to Squeezy's style of playing in the way he hoped- even if he can't put his finger on it.  Another owner may well think it the best ever built.

Rob.
Logged

Nick Collis Bird

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3785
  • Been squeezing melodeons for over 48 years (badly)
Re: What is it that makes a box "characterful" and loved?
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2013, 11:21:51 AM »

I agree that a person must choose a box that suits them personally.  But also, one person have prefer different boxes in different situations.  I like Pokerworks, particularly when someone else is playing them.  My own is Chinese and as responsive as a dead fish, but there have been a couple I've borrowed which were great fun.  I like the DB BPII with its swing tuning, particularly as a morris box.  Playing outdoors it can be played so loud the reed pairs start to frequency lock and it really sings out, unfortunately at about that point the basses choke.  Nowadays I mostly use my Trilly outside the house as it cuts through most other sounds and still has the L reed adding some darker colour.  But at home, playing quietly to myself, I tend to pick up a favourite Hohner Club.

I suspect that the Loffet, famous for smooth tone and good action, just didn't respond to Squeezy's style of playing in the way he hoped- even if he can't put his finger on it.  Another owner may well think it the best ever built.

Rob.

"EVEN IF HE CAN'T PUT HIS FINGER ON IT"
Don't start Pikey off for God's sake
Logged
Has anyone heard of the song. “ Broken Alarm-clock Blues” ? It starts   “I woke up this Afternoon”

Anahata

  • This mind intentionally left blank
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6357
  • Oakwood D/G, C/F Club, 1-rows in C,D,G
    • Treewind Music
Re: What is it that makes a box "characterful" and loved?
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2013, 01:51:41 PM »

I have heard it said that a good violin like a Stradivarius or Guarneri isn't always easy to play at first, and a good player needs to spend some time learning how to unlock its secrets, also that a player develops a relationship with an instrument over time much like a marriage.

With people as with instruments, there is not necessarily much correlation between
(a) perfect partner or otherwise - on paper
(b) immediate initial attraction or lack of it
(c) what actually works in the long run

"Character", though, may well have something to do with imperfections. Some you can't live with, others add to the charm...
Logged
I'm a melodeon player. What's your excuse?
Music recording and web hosting: www.treewind.co.uk
Mary Humphreys and Anahata: www.maryanahata.co.uk
Ceilidh band: www.barleycoteband.co.uk

EastAnglianTed

  • The wise wearer of the onesie
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 530
  • Castagnari Hascy-East Anglia for the win!
    • My Youtube account
Re: What is it that makes a box "characterful" and loved?
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2013, 05:07:02 PM »

For me anyways, the odd nick, scratch etc, but the fact that it doesn't make a blind bit of difference because the thing still sings in a way that 'connects' to you
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 06:00:11 PM by EastAnglianTed »
Logged

rileycat

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 357
Re: What is it that makes a box "characterful" and loved?
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2013, 05:55:26 PM »

At the moment, I'm with Ted on the way the box 'sings' out as being a key to joy and character and with Anahata about the relationship developing over time.  Perhaps I should have been more patient with my "bad" choices in the past!  :(
Tony
Logged

Andrew Wigglesworth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1101
  • 07
    • My website
Re: What is it that makes a box "characterful" and loved?
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2013, 08:55:19 PM »

Some of us have had to be patient with our choices; couldn't afford not to be.

I don't know whether I made good choices, or just that I forced myself to persevere. Then again, it's taking me a while to really believe in the newer 3v box I bought, but it has its moments  (:)

Nick Collis Bird

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3785
  • Been squeezing melodeons for over 48 years (badly)
Re: What is it that makes a box "characterful" and loved?
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2013, 09:38:00 PM »

For me anyways, the odd nick, scratch etc, but the fact that it doesn't make a blind bit of difference because the thing still sings in a way that 'connects' to you


Wadyer mean "odd Nick?"
Logged
Has anyone heard of the song. “ Broken Alarm-clock Blues” ? It starts   “I woke up this Afternoon”

oggiesnr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 995
  • Dino BPII, Alfred Arnold Bandoneon, Loffet G/C
Re: What is it that makes a box "characterful" and loved?
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2013, 10:48:17 PM »

Instruments either speak to you or they don't.  It is possible that they will speak for someone else when you find them a dog's dinner.  I recently played a very expensive double bass, neither I or the friend I was with thought a lot of it.  Someone else tried it and it was magical, both for them and the listener.  Can't explain it, my friend is a professional bassist so it wasn't a question of ability, it just is.

Steve
Logged

EastAnglianTed

  • The wise wearer of the onesie
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 530
  • Castagnari Hascy-East Anglia for the win!
    • My Youtube account
Re: What is it that makes a box "characterful" and loved?
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2013, 11:57:48 PM »

"odd Nick"  ;D
At least I did say it didn't matter, that's gotta be something! ;)
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal