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Author Topic: Hohner club numerals  (Read 17293 times)

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deltasalmon

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Hohner club numerals
« on: March 20, 2013, 12:40:23 PM »

This discussion mentioned the Hohner Club IV and stated that it was a 3-voice MMM club box. There is an ebay listing for a Hohner Club II B box that I saw and it made me wonder, what do the numerals and/or letters in the Hohner Club names mean?

Usually I would assume IV means a 4-voice but it looks like that's not right.
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Sean McGinnis
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Theo

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Re: Hohner club numerals
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2013, 02:20:42 PM »

Hohner Club numbers don't tell you anything about the number of voices.

Club 1 is two voice
Club 2 is two voice,
Club 3, and most others are three voice
Club 235 is 4 voice
and there are other names and numbers too, but don't expect them to have any logic that you can decode.
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Etienne

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Re: Hohner club numerals
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2013, 02:36:15 PM »

As far as i know :

club modell I : 2 voices MM, i once read (but where, maybe here ?) about one factory tuned LM
Club modell II : 2 voices MM
Erika : same as above, but with wood finish (i want one !)
Club model III : 3 voices MMM
Club II B : 2 voices MM
Club II B Victoria : exactly the same as above but badged "Victoria" (who knows...)
Club III B : 3 voices MMM
Club III B F : 3 voices MMM, 1 switch to obtain MM or MMM
Club III B S : 3 Voices LMM, 2 switch, you can obtain M, MM, LM, LMM
Club III B R : 3 voices, don't know more about tuning and switch
Club III M : 3 voices LMM, 5 automatic switch, can obtain M, L, MM, LM, LMM
Norma III : there is two models with this name, the older is exactly the same as Club III BS and the recent is exactly a Club III M (and even called "Club III M Norma III")
Club III M and Norma III badged "de luxe" have extra low reed with switch on the bass sides
Club IV : Different sources indicates different reed's configurations so...
Club Ouverture (the black recent modell, don't know much about pre-war ones) : 4 voices LMMM, 7 automatic switches, 10 basses with extra low reed
Club Ouverture V : 5 voices, LMMMH, 10 automatic switches, extra low reeds on basses
Morino Club N : 5 voices, LMMMH, Low reeds in cassoto, 10 automatic switches, 12 basses with extra low reeds
Other modell : don't know
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Etienne

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Re: Hohner club numerals
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2013, 02:42:09 PM »

And there is the hohner club X, everybody hopes it don't have ten voices.
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deltasalmon

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Re: Hohner club numerals
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2013, 02:42:21 PM »

Wow, quite an extensive list. Thanks for posting it.  (:)
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Sean McGinnis
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TedK

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Re: Hohner club numerals
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2013, 03:11:00 PM »

Just to add to that list, I used to have a Hohner "Piccoletta" which also had Club Model 1 written on it- and had a wood finish. It was similar to a "Erika" but with a different screw-on bellows.

Just what does the model number refer to?
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Sage Herb

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Re: Hohner club numerals
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2013, 03:53:11 PM »

Just to add to that list, I used to have a Hohner "Piccoletta" which also had Club Model 1 written on it- and had a wood finish. It was similar to a "Erika" but with a different screw-on bellows.

And I have (though on loan to my brotherin law) a Piccolo, which is as per an Erika/ Club 2 but with the earlier system of bolt-through bellows.
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penn

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Re: Hohner club numerals
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2013, 06:32:08 PM »

That's a good list, thanks.
I believe there are extra complications with models from different eras having the same name but different shapes and finishes (maybe even reed layouts?).
For instance I have a Club II B in the shape commonly known as "Darth Vader" and it's nothing like the older II B Victoria linked above. There are also Club II's that are wood finished, exactly like the Erika.

You could also perhaps add the Liliput and Preciosa to the list, they're Club boxes although it's not part of their name.

Steve
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Re: Hohner club numerals
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2013, 06:48:39 PM »

And there is the hohner club X, everybody hopes it don't have ten voices.

It only has 3 voices, LMM. Two levers behind the keyboard switch the L and M+ reeds giving 4 options LMM LM MM M. The X refers to the 10 bass buttons.
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Etienne

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Re: Hohner club numerals
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2013, 06:57:18 PM »

That's a good list, thanks.
I believe there are extra complications with models from different eras having the same name but different shapes and finishes (maybe even reed layouts?).
For instance I have a Club II B in the shape commonly known as "Darth Vader" and it's nothing like the older II B Victoria linked above. There are also Club II's that are wood finished, exactly like the Erika.

You could also perhaps add the Liliput and Preciosa to the list, they're Club boxes although it's not part of their name.

Steve
Yes, you are totally right, and my liliput don't want i play on him since i forget his name in the list (wich i think is not far from endless)

so
Club IIB "helmet" or "dark vader" or "what ever you want" shape : 2 voices MM
Liliput : 2 voices MM
Preciosa : 2 voices MM

And if someone have more informations about boxes like the old ouverture in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT-daws6fng , i will be glad to read about those, they looks like pieces of art.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 07:03:57 PM by Etienne »
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Re: Hohner club numerals
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2013, 07:01:20 PM »

And there is the hohner club X, everybody hopes it don't have ten voices.
The X refers to the 10 bass buttons.

That make sense. thanks.
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Theo

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Re: Hohner club numerals
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2013, 07:20:57 PM »

And there is the hohner club X, everybody hopes it don't have ten voices.
The X refers to the 10 bass buttons.

I doubt that very much.  There are club models numbered from 1 to 10, I don't know if it is a complete series, but I've personally seen Clubs 1,2,3,4,8,9,10.  Any examples of the number corresponding to the number of reeds or buttons is perely coincidence. I guess the numbers were more of a marketing thing than anything else.
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Re: Hohner club numerals
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2013, 09:20:53 AM »

And there is the hohner club X, everybody hopes it don't have ten voices.
The X refers to the 10 bass buttons.

I doubt that very much.  There are club models numbered from 1 to 10, I don't know if it is a complete series, but I've personally seen Clubs 1,2,3,4,8,9,10.  Any examples of the number corresponding to the number of reeds or buttons is perely coincidence. I guess the numbers were more of a marketing thing than anything else.

As you mention the club 4 with 3 voices you are certainly right, no argument can go against that point.
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GPS

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Re: Hohner club numerals
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2013, 09:33:43 AM »

There are also Club II's that are wood finished, exactly like the Erika.


Yep - my Bb/Eb is in that finish.
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Re: Hohner club numerals
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2013, 12:42:02 PM »

Although the Clubs have cylindrical bass buttons - Erikas have mushrooms  (:)
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Re: Hohner club numerals
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2013, 10:13:35 PM »

Although the Clubs have cylindrical bass buttons - Erikas have mushrooms  (:)

All my Club 2s and Erikas have mushroom buttons. Some Clubs don't, but it's not a defining feature.

Steve
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Re: Hohner club numerals
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2013, 05:13:53 AM »

Mine has cylindrical ones - and that's as far as I'd be prepared to commit myself!  :D

Graham
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triskel

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Re: Hohner club numerals
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2013, 03:44:20 AM »

Club II B Victoria : exactly the same as above but badged "Victoria" (who knows...)

I think I do, because I've just had a brainstorm and worked out the potential symbolism of it, only it's a bit like the swastikas on the older Hohner Black Dot Double-Ray boxes - which were launched, in Scotland, at the beginning of April 1934, barely a year after Hitler came to power in Germany...  :-\

The original version of the Hohner Club II B Victoria had what appears to be a stylised/simplified (for stencilling?) Greek temple design on the front of the treble casing (along with the Hohner name) which I've long suspected must be connected with the 1936 Berlin Olympics - in fact I think I might have said as much before on melnet.

Here's the listing page for the model, from my copy of the German 1937 "Hohner Handharmonikas" catalogue;


and a photo of the emblem:


The simple and innocent explanation for this might be that it was intended to represent the Temple of Hera, at Olympia, Greece, where the torch of the Olympic flame is lit by focusing the rays of the sun. Though, in fact, that ceremony in itself (and the Olympic Torch relay) was actually a Nazi invention for the 1936 Games: https://leaksource.wordpress.com/2011/03/06/olympic-symbols-originated-from-hitlers-nazi-propaganda/

But the very name "Victoria" suggests that it might instead (or as well?) be intended to represent the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin (for it is she, "Victoria" - the Roman Goddess of Victory - who rides in her 4-horse chariot, or Quadriga, on top of it), which might be considered emblematic of that city (and the Olympics there) - and indeed various official 1936 Olympic pins and badges were made (they are regularly to be found on eBay; http://www.ebay.com/bhp/olympic-pin-berlin-1936) that combine the symbols of the Brandenburg Gate (complete with "Victoria" on top) and the Olympic rings, like this one:


However, though it was originally built to celebrate peace, the Brandenburg Gate became the triumphal arch of the militaristic Prussians, and later the Nazis - for on January 30th, 1933, the day Adolf Hitler was appointed to the position of Chancellor, the brown-shirts marched him in a triumphal torchlight procession around Berlin and through the Gate, which became a Party symbol:




So are we looking at a simple celebration of the 1936 Olympics taking place in Berlin, a glorification of the pageantry/propaganda exercise that caused those games to be referred to as "the Nazi Olympics", German and/or Nazi Victoria/victory, or a bit of all three?

(It might all sound terribly far-fetched if it wasn't for those swastikas on Scottish melodeons...  :o)


Edited to fix broken image link and for clarification
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 07:32:54 PM by triskel »
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Hohner club numerals
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2013, 04:11:32 AM »

Gosh, Godwin's Law says that all internet discussion references Hitler eventually, but I really didn't expect to find it here :o

s'pose we could talk "temple of Doom", but it looks more like the Pantheon than Brandenburg to me. Not sure we even know how Hera's temple was topped off, but I agree that the 1937 motif was "meant to be seen" and one didn't rock the boat too much in Germany around then. Given the olympics link one could however see Victoria as the female form of Victor "victor ludorum" rather than an attempt to takeover English Morris musicianship.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 04:16:18 AM by Chris Ryall »
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triskel

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Re: Hohner club numerals
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2013, 06:15:02 AM »

Gosh, Godwin's Law says that all internet discussion references Hitler eventually, but I really didn't expect to find it here :o

It's not the first time he's come up, whilst, when the subject of swastikas on the Black Dots arose originally, I was sceptical about them myself at first and trying to find other explanations, but there's plenty of evidence that Hohner "toed the Party line" and the date the Black Dot first appeared seems a remarkable coincidence if they're not deliberate.


But, in this thread, we are talking about other boxes that were made during the Nazi era and, as for all Germans, the Nazis were very much a fact of life for German musical instrument manufacturers in the 1930s. I've been greatly reminded of that in the last couple of days whilst looking through old Meinel & Herold (Klingenthal) catalogues from the period, that gradually show them catering more for the Nazi market, whilst proudly displaying how dramatically their business has increased between 1933 (30,000 RM) when Hitler came to power and 1938 (3,000,000 RM). It's kinda' scary to see the introduction to that catalogue signed off with "Heil Hitler!" - but probably normal enough by the time it was written.

s'pose we could talk "temple of Doom", but it looks more like the Pantheon than Brandenburg to me. Not sure we even know how Hera's temple was topped off, but I agree that the 1937 motif was "meant to be seen"

I'd say its more a "generic Greek structure" - only the graphic artist has had to cut back on the details, including the number of columns, for practical reasons. Such facades are more commonly represented  with six columns, including the Temple of Hera, and the Propylaea, the gateway to the Acropolis in Athens, which the design of the Brandenburg Gate was based on.
 
Given the olympics link one could however see Victoria as the female form of Victor "victor ludorum"...

The German for "Victor" is "Victor" (or "Viktor") - so why not just use that, if that's what they meant?

... rather than an attempt to takeover English Morris musicianship.

Ach so, the gleichton must have been their "secret weapon"...  ;)


Edited for redundancy and capitalisation
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 07:40:51 PM by triskel »
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