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Author Topic: Low bass reeds  (Read 9999 times)

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Theo

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Re: Low bass reeds
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2008, 01:51:54 PM »

I remember now, Hohners do have different chord inversions on the D on push and pull, I think the push one is lower-sounding (tonic lowest) to go with the D row and the pull one is higher-sounding (third lowest) to go with the G row but I could be wrong...

Ian

It's just coincidence that the pitches happen to sit well with the different rows.  Its just a by-product of the way Hohner chord reeds are arranged.  On each reedplate they place the two pitches from each chord that are closest, so for D/A you have:

D/C#  F#/E  A/A

on Italian boxes the chords have tonics, 3rds and 5ths sharing reedplates so for the same chord you would have:

D/A  F#/C#  A/E

which is also why you can't easily fit a stop to Hohner chords to take out the thirds.
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IanD

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Re: Low bass reeds
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2008, 03:00:04 PM »

I remember now, Hohners do have different chord inversions on the D on push and pull, I think the push one is lower-sounding (tonic lowest) to go with the D row and the pull one is higher-sounding (third lowest) to go with the G row but I could be wrong...

Ian

It's just coincidence that the pitches happen to sit well with the different rows.  Its just a by-product of the way Hohner chord reeds are arranged.  On each reedplate they place the two pitches from each chord that are closest, so for D/A you have:

D/C#  F#/E  A/A

on Italian boxes the chords have tonics, 3rds and 5ths sharing reedplates so for the same chord you would have:

D/A  F#/C#  A/E

which is also why you can't easily fit a stop to Hohner chords to take out the thirds.

So Hohner pair by pitch (on the same reedplate I assume, so 4 reeds per plate?), Italian makers pair by note in chord (2 reeds per plate) ?

Cheers

Ian
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IanD

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Re: Low bass reeds
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2008, 12:48:26 PM »

From the lack of replies, do I take it that nobody apart from Andy has any melodeon basses (in any key box) lower than C2 ?

(apart from Theo's Elysium which goes down to at least D1)

Or is everyone still too stuffed full of Christmas pudding to be able to reach their computer keyboard ?

Happy New Year (in advance)

Ian

P.S. Any continental chromatic players here? If so, how low do yours go?
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an bosca ceoil

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Re: Low bass reeds
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2008, 03:39:22 PM »

Quote
So Hohner pair by pitch (on the same reedplate I assume, so 4 reeds per plate?)
Quote
No, it is just a clever cost/corner cutting method. Whilst the Italians make plates with different pitch/sized tongues/apartures, Hohner get away with starting with three unisonic reedplates,  each with same sizes of tongue, grind one reed sharp on two of them and leave one to do (in the example Theo cites) the tonic of one chord and the fifth of the other.
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IanD

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Re: Low bass reeds
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2008, 03:22:09 PM »

Quote
So Hohner pair by pitch (on the same reedplate I assume, so 4 reeds per plate?)
Quote
No, it is just a clever cost/corner cutting method. Whilst the Italians make plates with different pitch/sized tongues/apartures, Hohner get away with starting with three unisonic reedplates,  each with same sizes of tongue, grind one reed sharp on two of them and leave one to do (in the example Theo cites) the tonic of one chord and the fifth of the other.

So one chord is normal (e.g. Dma=D-F#-A, tonic lowest) and one is inverted (e.g. Ama=C#-E-A, tonic highest)?

Ian
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an bosca ceoil

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Re: Low bass reeds
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2008, 06:01:30 PM »

So far as I can remember you would have

          Plate1      Plate2    Plate3 
            A3           D4         F#4     
            A3           C#4       E4
which would make the D second inversion?
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Theo

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Re: Low bass reeds
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2008, 07:20:35 PM »

Which is  what I wrote about 4 posts back
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an bosca ceoil

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Re: Low bass reeds
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2008, 08:11:51 PM »

Quote
Which is  what I wrote about 4 posts back
Quite so but did not think you had mentioned the inversion.
I now notice that Ian had also already answered his own question about the "different" chords even earlier.
Reply 17 of December 12
                                                                                                                     
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an bosca ceoil

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Re: Low bass reeds
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2008, 08:17:42 PM »

Just realised that when you detailed the Hohner chord  reed set-up you were actually explaining how the inversion arose, so cannot understand why the question came up again?
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Re: Low bass reeds
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2009, 11:55:41 AM »

The more I think on it the more I'm certain that none of the DG boxes I've tried had the C bass note as the lowest note. 

Also are not the basses in the Key of G rather than C?  GBD and C on the push with ACDE on the pull.  So to my mind the G should, everything else being equal, be the lowest note?  In fact don't DG club boxes have Bb on the push instead of C?

Methinks a good excuse for a trip up to the Music Room at Cleckheaton and try all their boxes ;D
« Last Edit: January 02, 2009, 11:57:27 AM by Dazbo »
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Re: Low bass reeds
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2009, 12:22:38 PM »

The more I think on it the more I'm certain that none of the DG boxes I've tried had the C bass note as the lowest note. 

Also are not the basses in the Key of G rather than C?  GBD and C on the push with ACDE on the pull.  So to my mind the G should, everything else being equal, be the lowest note?  In fact don't DG club boxes have Bb on the push instead of C?

Methinks a good excuse for a trip up to the Music Room at Cleckheaton and try all their boxes ;D

You have to be careful about what you say is "lowest" due to several octave reeds on each bass note -- it doesn't matter what the note is, it's the pitch it sounds at that matters. On a D/G, play the bass run up GABCDE and see where in the run the pitch drops.

All the boxes I can lay my hands on (D/G and G/C, Oakwood and Castagnari and Hohner) have C as the lowest note -- though I spoke to Guy (Wyatt) at a NYE party and he said that he thought his Loffet did go all the way down to G, so maybe this was the box I mentioned earlier that I'd played that went lower than C.

Or maybe we'd both drunk rather a lot of beer and/or Guy's musical memory may have been impaired by this :-)

Oh, by the way -- Happy New Year everyone!

Ian
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Dazbo

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Re: Low bass reeds
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2009, 12:56:06 PM »

You have to be careful about what you say is "lowest" due to several octave reeds on each bass note -- it doesn't matter what the note is, it's the pitch it sounds at that matters. On a D/G, play the bass run up GABCDE and see where in the run the pitch drops.

I'm quite willing to admit that my musical ear is pretty much pants (partly why I find it next to impossible to learn a complete tune by ear) and that what I hear is not what is actually sounding but I regularly play the opening bars to Eye Level (Van Der Valk theme) on the bass, which goes something like GABCCCCCCBAGGABCCCCCD, to my ear the C is higher than the G  A and B on both my Tommy (with the lowest G reed lowered an octave) and the equivalent on my GC Hohner Morgane.  I'm pretty certain (although can't prove it) that this was the same on the two Dino Baffetti Black pearls I've had.

All the boxes I can lay my hands on (D/G and G/C, Oakwood and Castagnari and Hohner) have C as the lowest note -- though I spoke to Guy (Wyatt) at a NYE party and he said that he thought his Loffet did go all the way down to G, so maybe this was the box I mentioned earlier that I'd played that went lower than C.

Or maybe we'd both drunk rather a lot of beer and/or Guy's musical memory may have been impaired by this :-)

It's a while since I've had a go on Guy's box and can't remember, a nice instrument though.

Oh, by the way -- Happy New Year everyone!

Best wishes to everyone from me too.

Theo, on reflection, JK was talking about the D chord not the bass note as you suggest.
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Darren

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Re: Low bass reeds
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2009, 12:17:04 AM »

In answer to the original question (which was a while back) - my main Saltarelle Connemara II has B as the lowest bass for a D/G layout.  I realise this is only one lower than the more usual C - but it makes a hell of a difference for me.

Cheers

Squeezy
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