Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Adam-T]

Always liked the sound of concertinas but when I tried the Anglo last year, I didn`t get on with it , the combination of the button layout and it being Bi-sonoric didn`t click with me the way Melodeons do - I found it far worse to get the hang of than Chromatic Melodeons (Still have a Trichord and refuse to give up) and many here know the battle I`ve had with those too - LOL.....

So I have a nice used "Jackie" 30 button English coming and will give that a go, being Unisonoric will take away the confusion of having other box playing confuse things , I`m sure it`s totally different from a CBA  only being 30 button, I`m sure it`s ultimately very limiting but only if I get that far , lets face it, it`s got more buttons than most 48 bass PAs have Keys - we`ll see

[Lester]

I can definitely assure that it is not "ultimately very limiting" with the 30 keys it is fully chromatic from G below middle C to the second C above middle C which is quite enough for a most of music 

(My other free reed instrument is a Wheatstone Aeola 48 Key English)

[Adam-T]

Yeah, I`m sure it`s enough for me, the ultimately "limiting" comment was based on that the "serious" ones seem to have 48 buttons like your Aeola .

What reeds do these things have Lester? Generic Chinese ones ? (I have no issue with that, the Scarlatti anglo sounded superb, it was just mechanically useless) . I saw the pic of the action in the Jackie and it looks well made and a copy of the vintage ones. Should be interesting, Hope it pans out .

[Lester]

Yeah, I`m sure it`s enough for me, the ultimately "limiting" comment was based on that the "serious" ones seem to have 48 buttons like your Aeola .

What reeds do these things have Lester? Generic Chinese ones ? (I have no issue with that, the Scarlatti anglo sounded superb, it was just mechanically useless) . I saw the pic of the action in the Jackie and it looks well made and a copy of the vintage ones. Should be interesting, Hope it pans out .

I've played a couple and have been pleasantly surprised, for the money they are very good starter instruments. Not sure whose reeds they are but the ones I have played seemed to have been set up by someone who knew what they were doing in the factory or possibly by Concertina Connection the company that had them made in China.

[Adam-T]

The site says they`re a Wakker design and QC is under strict control - looking forward to it :) . it`s been a year since I tried the Anglo .

[Steve_freereeder]

Yeah, I`m sure it`s enough for me, the ultimately "limiting" comment was based on that the "serious" ones seem to have 48 buttons like your Aeola .

What reeds do these things have Lester? Generic Chinese ones ? (I have no issue with that, the Scarlatti anglo sounded superb, it was just mechanically useless) . I saw the pic of the action in the Jackie and it looks well made and a copy of the vintage ones. Should be interesting, Hope it pans out .

The Jackie/Jack English, and the Rochelle Anglo concertinas all have Italian accordion type reeds, but the other components are made, and the instruments assembled, in China. Having played both the English and Anglo versions, I would say that they are excellent value for money as beginner's entry level instruments. The action and mechanics are superior (e.g. proper pads, springs, riveted pivots, etc.) to other similar genre instruments on the market. 

More information about them here.

[Theo]

The Jackie/Jack English, and the Rochelle Anglo concertinas all have Italian accordion type reeds,

I'm pretty sure that is not correct.  True the 2nd generation Rochelle has Italian reeds, but the 1st generation (prior to about 2010) had Chinese reeds, and as far as I know the Jack and Jackie still have Chinese reeds.

Having said that the reeds in the Jackie are of decent quality, which is surely the important thing.

[Steve_freereeder]

The Jackie/Jack English, and the Rochelle Anglo concertinas all have Italian accordion type reeds,

I'm pretty sure that is not correct.  True the 2nd generation Rochelle had Italian reeds, but the 1st generation (prior to about 2010) had Chinese reeds, and as far as I know the Jack and Jackie still have Chinese reeds.

Interesting...  I was told by a dealer that the Jack/Jackie have Italian reeds, and Concertina Connection's website (link on previous post) states they are Italian (but perhaps that just refers to the Rochelle?)

But as you say, they play quite nicely, which is the main thing, I guess.

[Theo]

The CC website and it is silent on the origin of the reeds in the Jack/Jackie,   and I was a dealer for them for a while, no claims were ever made by CC about the source of the reeds at that time.  I'm sure that if they were Italian that would have been made clear.

[Steve_freereeder]

The CC website and it is silent on the origin of the reeds in the Jack/Jackie,   and I was a dealer for them for a while, no claims were ever made by CC about the source of the reeds at that time.  I'm sure that if they were Italian that would have been made clear.

If the Jack/Jackie have Chinese reeds then, I wonder if the decision to change to Italian reeds for the the Rochelle meant that the Chinese reeds were not responsive enough for the rapid push/pull action of an Anglo, but OK for the fewer bellows reversals needed for an English.

[Jon Loomes]

Save up and buy a Lachenal.  It will have real concertina reeds, it will be concertina sized, it will have buttons for all the notes including enharmonics. It will be made of wood. It will have resale value. It will be a real instrument.

(Just my opinion, obviously...does not necessarily represent the views of the etc etc)

Cheers,
J

[Adam-T]

Thanks Steve and Yes Jon I will if I get good enough to warrant one , it`d be foolish to dump Aeola money on a first instrument as a beginner (it`d be like someone who likes Melodeons but never touched one buying a Tommy as a first box rather than a pokerwork) .. and I`d not touch another generic chinese (scarlatti etc) 'tina with a bargepole, though the reeds in that were amazingly good for what it was ..

I see the Jackie and Rochelle as like the Black Diamond of the concertina world, somewhere between a Scarlatti Nero and a Sandpiper in melodeon terms. so should be good enough to see if I get into it .

[bourree boy]

I also play an English tina.  As I could read music (rememberd from schooldays on the recorder) it quickly became obvious that it was a "logical" instrument.  You can tell it was invented by a scientist.  It is very easy to "walk" up and down the stave, (left right left right)  The single reed cuts through the others in a session.  If I need to see what a new tune sounds like I resort to the tina first.

[tedrick]

Dear Adam -
I am curious to hear how you are getting on with the English concertina?

Simon Thoumire is one of my favorites -

Best Regards,
Reed

[Adam-T]

I gave it a good go but it drove me nuts - I guess I thought it would be like a concertina version of a CBA in the way that an Anglo is the concertina version of a melodeon but it`s not and I couldn`t gel with the alternating left / right hand for the notes business ..

I`m glad I gave it a go but I`ll stick with Melodeons and Accordions.. I`m still working at B/C/C# , refuse to give up on that one 

Thanks for asking :) and Jon was right, the Jackie is massive

[diatosoldo]

I also play an English tina.  As I could read music (rememberd from schooldays on the recorder) it quickly became obvious that it was a "logical" instrument.  You can tell it was invented by a scientist.  It is very easy to "walk" up and down the stave, (left right left right)  The single reed cuts through the others in a session.  If I need to see what a new tune sounds like I resort to the tina first.

hello bourrée boy (I think I know you, I see you in Gennetines every year  ) ...
Maybe I'm going to ask you silly questions (sorry : I know very little about concertinas, but I really would like to start with a concertina ... and would like to be able to choose my concertina on my own decision !) : English concertina is a chromatic instrument isn't it ? no push/pull ?
As far as I know, the push/pull concertina does not work like a melodeon .. different ways of push/pull as far as I know ... so maybe it would be better (as someone said above !) to play this kind of chromatic instrument ? moreover I would like to be less limited in tonalities and flat and sharp notes ..
If you have any piece of advise to give to me, I would be very grateful ...
Thanks in advance !

[deltasalmon]

I also play an English tina.  As I could read music (rememberd from schooldays on the recorder) it quickly became obvious that it was a "logical" instrument.  You can tell it was invented by a scientist.  It is very easy to "walk" up and down the stave, (left right left right)  The single reed cuts through the others in a session.  If I need to see what a new tune sounds like I resort to the tina first.

hello bourrée boy (I think I know you, I see you in Gennetines every year  ) ...
Maybe I'm going to ask you silly questions (sorry : I know very little about concertinas, but I really would like to start with a concertina ... and would like to be able to choose my concertina on my own decision !) : English concertina is a chromatic instrument isn't it ? no push/pull ?
As far as I know, the push/pull concertina does not work like a melodeon .. different ways of push/pull as far as I know ... so maybe it would be better (as someone said above !) to play this kind of chromatic instrument ? moreover I would like to be less limited in tonalities and flat and sharp notes ..
If you have any piece of advise to give to me, I would be very grateful ...
Thanks in advance !

Here is a little explanation of the differences, pros, cons etc of the different concertina systems.

[Steve_freereeder]

Maybe I'm going to ask you silly questions (sorry : I know very little about concertinas, but I really would like to start with a concertina ... and would like to be able to choose my concertina on my own decision !) : English concertina is a chromatic instrument isn't it ? no push/pull ?

Correct. The English Concertina is fully chromatic and plays the same note on the push and on the pull.

As far as I know, the push/pull concertina does not work like a melodeon .. different ways of push/pull as far as I know ... so maybe it would be better (as someone said above !) to play this kind of chromatic instrument ? moreover I would like to be less limited in tonalities and flat and sharp notes ..

The Anglo Concertina plays different notes on the push and the pull, and in many ways it is very similar to a melodeon. The anglo layout can be thought of as a melodeon split in half, with the chin-end (lower pitch) notes on the left hand side and the knee-end (higher pitch) on the right hand side.

On a standard 30-button anglo there are three rows of buttons. The commonest tuning is in C/G. This means that the middle row is the 'home' row and is pitched in C, with middle C being the third button on the LH side. This C row is exactly the same layout as the inside row of a standard G/C melodeon with low notes and no accidentals.

The inside row of a 30-button anglo is pitched in G, but it is one octave higher than the G-row of a G/C melodeon. In other words, on the anglo, the C row and G row are pitched a fifth apart, whereas on a melodeon they rows are a fourth apart.

The outer row of a 30-button anglo contains accidentals and some push-pull reversals of the middle row.

A 30-button anglo is fully chromatic across nearly all its range, but it remains easiest to play in keys close to its home rows. On a C/G anglo it is easy to play in the keys of C, G, Am, Dm; nearly as easy in D major, F major, A major, E minor, and then progressively more awkward in other keys.

Anglo concertinas pitched in G/D, Bb/F, etc. are also available but less common.

The anglo concertina doesn't have 'automatic' chord buttons like a melodeon, but it is easy to make chords by learning the finger shapes needed, just like a guitarist does. The 'English' or 'harmonic' style of playing the anglo often involves playing the melody mainly on the RH side and making chords for accompaniment on the LH side. The Irish-style of playing the anglo tends to concentrate on melody only, in a very fluid style across both sides of the instrument.

There are also the various duet-system concertinas, which play the same on the push and pull, but which have the lower notes on the LH side and the higher notes on the RH side.

Just about all you want to know about concertinas (including layouts) can be found here:
http://www.concertina.com

[diatosoldo]

thank you very much everybody 
Maybe a chromatic one would be a good choice for me, but nevertheless, it's not easy for me to make up my mind.
The better should be trying several instruments so as to get an idea, test the keyboard ... but there are no sellers in my town (and maybe none in France ?) ...
Even in Saint Chartier festival next summer, I checked the luthiers list, and saw nobody selling concertinas 

[diatosoldo]

Here is a little explanation of the differences, pros, cons etc of the different concertina systems.
[/quote]

Thank you Deltasalmon 
In the link you gave me, there is something I don't understand perfectly : the difference between "duet concertina" and "english concertina" ? what is "an octave overlap"  ...