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Author Topic: Advice on bourree bass patterns, please?  (Read 4340 times)

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Anyanka

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Advice on bourree bass patterns, please?
« on: May 30, 2013, 05:57:18 PM »

Hi all -  I play in a band for French dancing once a month, although I still struggle with the speed of most tunes. I really need to figure out what to do with that left hand rhythm in the bourrees.  All advice welcome - also please do post links to relevant music samples on squeezebox.
I've done a search for "bourree" on here but not found anything... 
(And yes, you're quite right, that's not a melodeon.)
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Advice on bourree bass patterns, please?
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2013, 07:04:50 PM »

It is called the "heartbeat rhythm" (and not without just cause ;) ) and you can express that on either end. Firstly you should gently euthanise any bhodran players in the vicinity. Their ability to play Bourrées as if they were jigs or reels is quite incredible.

Secondly there are two main types, usually scored 4:4 or 3:8. The 4:4s tend to be from the Bourbonnais region (high Loire) or the Berriçon villages, fast 3:8s (eg poules houpées from the hills of Auvergne, Morvan (special dance style) may be either and there are also exceptions to this general scheme.

Even Fred Paris acknowledges that this is "awkward" for melodeon, an recommends a very sparse left hand technique.  He plays as a basis  left end

  4:4   |  Bass chord nothing nothing |.          3:8  | Bass chord nothing  |

On this structure you can elaborate eg | bass…off nothing nothing|, using the lift off of finger off the button as a rhythm event, or slip in the odd bass run. I like to keep these again to the first two notes of the bar. You could almost say that the silence in the latter part of the bar is part of the Bourrée signature?  I found Paris's advice to keep it sparse mind-expanding, having had very confused teaching from some (fairly famous) GB players.

Get this sort of thing solid on its own and then introduce your tune against this on right end. It'll take a few days for these to meld into a nicely danceable whole.

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Gary P Chapin

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Re: Advice on bourree bass patterns, please?
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2013, 08:02:06 PM »

I asked Paris about this, also:
_____________________
Q: Here is a very specific question: What are you doing with your left hand in bourrées, 2 and 3 beat? It is a very important issue for accordionists in the United States! How should you play bass and chords for bourrées?

A: While playing 2-beat bourrées, I prefer to play long notes in the left hand, alternating chords (no third) and basses, like drones. I am inspired by the harmonium, which I have played since adolescence. Otherwise, bourrées sound like polkas and it's a shame. I find it important to preserve the uniqueness of the 2-beat bourrée. The melodies have "horizontal" aspects. They must be left to unfold like songs, a capella, without chopping the left hand. Contrariwise, the playing in the right hand is at the same time bound and fast with ornaments, like the hurdy-gurdy. For 3-beat bourrées, the left hand accompanies with more traditional "bass - chord - chord," but occasionally, I break this pattern with odd rhythmic combinations. It's a bit complicated to explain, it would be easier with an accordion! I also sometimes get the effect of "drone" as in the 2-beat bourrée.

______________________

I love the sadness implied by "it's a shame" if bourrees sound like polkas!  My sense is that rhythmically it's important to get the last/first beat happening.  So, in three-beat bourrees the 3-1-*-3-1-*3-1*...  For two beat bourrees its 4-1-*-*-4-1-*-*4-1 ...  One thing I was taught for 2-beat bourrees is BASS-chord-nothing-chord-BASS-chord-nothing-chord ...

Full Frederic Paris interview is here http://accordeonaire.blogspot.com/2011/09/questions-for-frederic-paris.html
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Advice on bourree bass patterns, please?
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2013, 08:20:48 PM »

I think Frédou is (still) saying to keep the left end simple and sparse with a clean rhythm, and let the excitement develop on the right end? I have to say I regard Chavannée as the tradition bearers in this.

Meanwhile great things are happening near Clarmont Ferrand, google for "Vuncaniques"! There the 3:8 Auvergne style is ballooning out into a dance that needs 3-4m2 per couple, led by great fast compositions from Chabenat, or Bouffard. So "things are still evolving"
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Gary P Chapin

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Re: Advice on bourree bass patterns, please?
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2013, 08:40:52 PM »

I think Frédou is (still) saying to keep the left end simple and sparse with a clean rhythm ...

Absolutely.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Advice on bourree bass patterns, please?
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2013, 12:40:57 AM »

Done some searches on youtube.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdFnhCJN2iA
  nice Chavannée bourrée. Paris protegée on accordéon, but she's good ..

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7r5vtEXbgQ
  The master himself same tune at Bath GB - can just see his left end

There was another one that appeared on my pad, but not on this PC - computers are so annoying!
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Anyanka

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Re: Advice on bourree bass patterns, please?
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2013, 12:40:45 PM »

Thank you very much. 

I like sparseness, anyway.

 :-X
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Cooper

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Re: Advice on bourree bass patterns, please?
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2013, 12:55:14 PM »

I thnik there is a big difference between Auvergnat (in 3) and other bourrées (in 2 or 3).

Les Brayauds advocate a simple b-a-a left hand for the bourrée Auvergnat. All left had should be very short especially the bass, to NOT make it a waltzrithm. Then with that as basis you are free to experiment for example putting in extra (strong) basses for notes in the melodie that you want to highlight.

For other bourrée's in 3 i usually use B-n-a/B-n-a to get a 3-1 rythm.
For bourrées in 2 i usualy use a lot of bourdon-like sounds, very often with an emphasis on 4-1.
W
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Anyanka

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Re: Advice on bourree bass patterns, please?
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2013, 01:17:37 PM »


For bourrées in 2 i usualy use a lot of bourdon-like sounds, very often with an emphasis on 4-1.


What does "bourdon-like" mean?  I probably should have explained that I am fairly new to French dance music, lots to learn!

Also, if anyone wanted to demonstrate bass samples with an audio or video clip... that would be fantastic.  I do appreciate that you may not have the time though.
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Cooper

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Re: Advice on bourree bass patterns, please?
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2013, 02:37:38 PM »

The typical example of bourdon-instruments are bapipes and hurdy-gurdys. They have one tone, the bourdontone, that is always humming along. On your accordeon you can imitate the same thing on several ways. You can play 1 chord, the whole time during the song, letting it sound all the time, without rythm. Aother example is "piccotage" where you play the same note in between a number of other notes.

In this case i meant, every chord(or bass) i play i will let sound for a while until i go to the next chord. Sometimes wihile still giving a 4-1 rythm (stopping just a bit before the 4th count in a bar, then resounding it on the 4th)

W
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Stiamh

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Re: Advice on bourree bass patterns, please?
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2013, 02:39:02 PM »

bourdon = drone (in bees and music)

PS should add that when referring to bees it means bumblebee rather than the male honeybee.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 02:41:07 PM by Steve Jones »
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Advice on bourree bass patterns, please?
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2013, 03:59:15 PM »

I habitually come into ou sont donc ces amants (from Cotillon) against a solitary E bass drone , and play the whole melody through 1st time on the pull. You need to start with bellows closed! It works, the more so because Chav's lead-in Habit n'a  qu'un bouton bourrée is very pulsed.  Contrast is very important in music?

.. our someone else might do it the other way round  ;)  Who said bumblebees couldn't "fly"! 

Off to Wales now - "tarra" :|glug
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 04:00:49 PM by Chris Ryall »
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Anyanka

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Re: Advice on bourree bass patterns, please?
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2013, 04:05:15 PM »

I don't use drones for the French tunes, because we have a hurdy gurdy in the band - I leave the droning to him. Mostly, I see my role in the set-up (there are also up to 3 fiddles, a mandolin and occasional guitar) as providing rhythm/bass, and some lower frequencies... 
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ButtonBox21

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Re: Advice on bourree bass patterns, please?
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2013, 01:03:37 PM »

In your case, where you are in a band with rhythm instruments, just play the melody and don't play the basses. This is very common in many types of bands using accordion. I have seen it in Tex-Mex, Cajun, Irish, Polka, French, Italian ect. At a session I never play basses especially when there is a guitar, mandoline or bouzuki to handle the rhythm. Many bands use a keyboard to handle rhythm and the accordionist just plays the melody. Hope this helps. :||:
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nudiefish

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Re: Advice on bourree bass patterns, please?
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2013, 11:15:25 PM »

Firstly you should gently euthanise any bhodran players in the vicinity.

I can't tell you how much I adore that quote. 
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Advice on bourree bass patterns, please?
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2013, 05:41:07 AM »

Legal stuff: no bodhranista was harmed in the spinning of this thread
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