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Author Topic: Low Hohner SP 20  (Read 4286 times)

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Andy

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Low Hohner SP 20
« on: May 31, 2013, 05:01:58 PM »

Anyone out there know of any stockists who still have new Low SP 20s? I am particularly thinking about Low F and low D.
As far as I am aware these are no longer being produced in low tunings.

I know there is the new(ish) Hohner Thunderbird but it has 3 things going against it for me:
1.   Exposed reedblate edge (SP 20 is recessed)
2.   Wooden comb (SP 20 is plastic)
3.   Price (more than twice price of SP 20)

I have tried the Seydel Session Steel (Paddy Richter Regular G) but found it a lot quieter and less responsive than my equivalent SP 20.

Admittedly I have modified the SP 20

Regular G – Paddy Richterised, converted from JI to ET, comb sprues removed, cover plates opened up at back.
I have to say the difficulty in obtaining low tuned SP20s seems a lot like a cynical move on Hohner’s part.

-Right, so no one is buying our incredibly expensive new Thunderbird range of low harmonicas – solution - stop supplying low SP 20s.
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Sage Herb

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Re: Low Hohner SP 20
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2013, 06:50:00 PM »

Hi Andy
No, I haven't found any stockists with any low (ie low E and downwards) in stock. And Hohner don't have any in their C Shop. I love these Special 20 harps and deeply resent Hohner's attitude on this. I am fortunate in that I have a few sets of plates and know a technician who can replace single reeds when I blow them out. If you have any dead plates, PM me and I'll pass on this guy's contact details. Like you, I've been disappointed by the Seydels that everyone seems to rave about. If you haven't any Special 20s that can be resurrected and don't want to spend the dosh on Thunderbirds (i haven't bought any) you can still get classic Marine Bands in these low keys. Of course these won't have the recessed plates that you like, but they do have the same compromise tuning as Sp20s and are cheap (less than £25 at Eagle Music). I also have a scheme for converting standard pitch Sp20s to low (eg standard A to low D) that I can let you have if you PM me. But this doesn't provide the full bottom octave, so may not do what you want.
Sorry I can't be more helpful
Cheers
Steve
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Andy

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Re: Low Hohner SP 20
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2013, 07:58:34 PM »


Thanks Steve – More than helpful.

Don’t have any dead plates (hope this happy state of affairs continues)

Just fancied having a low D in reserve when I belatedly realised what was going on.

I mostly play in D, G and A and I am happy with regular G and A, it’s just with the D that I find the regular tuning painfully high so use a low D.

Recently took a notion for a low F as one of my favourite bands (The Vatersey Boys) don’t follow the normal conventions of traditional Scottish music and play a lot in F – Guess as you say I could get an MB for this.

Would still be interested in your scheme for converting regular A to low D for future reference as I usually have to do some retuning to Paddy Richterise anyway (realise that I will have to slightly tweak your scheme to allow for this).

I am also noticing on the web that quite a few folk have been trimming MB reedplates to fit into SP20 combs. In the past this would have been a lot of work for no real benefit, however it now starts to make a bit more sense. There are of course two variations on this theme.

1.   Buy an MB in the tuning you want and buy an SP 20 comb, then modify the reedplate to allow the SP 20 comb to be fitted to the MB. (I would change to screw on cover fitting while still using the MB cover)
2.   Buy an SP 20 in any key and buy MB reedplates in the key you want, change round the reedplates while at the same time modifying them to fit the SP 20.

When the time comes I may give option 1 a try.

Thanks again
Andy
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Sage Herb

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Re: Low Hohner SP 20
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2013, 07:53:18 AM »

Hi Andy
I've just noticed that Harmonicas Direct still seem to have a low Eb Sp20 in stock. So another option would be for you to buy that and tuned the whole thing down a semitone to low D. See it here in the drop-down menu - http://www.harmonicas-direct.com/harmonicas/diatonic/hohner-special-20

I guess you've done enough retuning to know what the compromise tuning on Sp20s and MBs is, but I do have a table of the tuning offsets if you'd like it. (Best PM me a snail mail address if you do.)

If you do go down the road of modifying MB plates to fit Sp20, it might be worth buying a G Sp20 and a set of MB low D plates. Then you'd finish up with a spare set of G plates for future use. However this isn't so good if you plan to have MB cover plates on your hybrid. If you do keep the MB covers on a Sp20 comb, I don't know if the cover supports on the latter will be long enough to support the former. Customisers who convert nailed MBs to screws tend to use long machine screws which then double as cover supports (obviously you have to install some pointing upwards and some downwards).

Like you, I mostly play in D, G, A, Em, Am and C, but do accompany singers in low F, Ab, E, Bb, Am, Fm and other daft pitches. For C, I tend to use low C Seydel session steels which are half the price of T-birds but do need some fiddling with the gapping to be playable. I'll do a separate post with my A to Low D conversion. (Incidentally, the same formula would make a G to low C conversion, or a standard C to low F conversion, though I haven't actually done this.)

Hohner make the best harps IMHO but persist in wasting efforts by developing novelty and popstar signature models, which are only the MS series with fancy coverplates. Grrrr. I suppose that most harp buyers do so on a whim and chuck them in a drawer.
Cheers
Steve
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Hohner Erikas & Club 2s
Hohner gob-harps:
Vega Senator 5-string banjo; Alex Burns plectrum guitar

Black Box Band - www.theblackboxband.co.uk
Annie Dearman & Steve Harrison - www.dearmanharrison.co.uk
Phoenix - www.phoenixdanceband.co.uk
http://soundcloud.com/sage-herb

Sage Herb

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Re: Low Hohner SP 20
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2013, 10:02:37 AM »

Andy - re making low D from standard A:

You aim to end up with:

Top plate - A D F# A D F# A D F# A (holes 1-10 respectively)

Btm plate - C# E G B C# C# E G B E (ditto)

To make this from standard A you need to retune 13 reeds, though none by more than 2 semitones.

So you finish up with the pitch that would be in hole 4 blow of a Richter low D in your hole 2 blow. This works really well for tunes that you might otherwise play on the D row of a melodeon, which often go down to B below the keynote. It's equally OK for tunes in the lowest octave that only go down to the note below, ie C#. It isn't as good for tunes that go further down, eg to the A, unless you can bend hole 1 draw down to B. I guess that you could Paddify by tubing hole 1 blow up to B, but I don't know if this would be of much practical use when you'd lost the A from that hole.

Hope all this makes some sort of sense (even if turns out to be useless for you).
Cheers
Steve
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Hohner Erikas & Club 2s
Hohner gob-harps:
Vega Senator 5-string banjo; Alex Burns plectrum guitar

Black Box Band - www.theblackboxband.co.uk
Annie Dearman & Steve Harrison - www.dearmanharrison.co.uk
Phoenix - www.phoenixdanceband.co.uk
http://soundcloud.com/sage-herb

Andy

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Re: Low Hohner SP 20
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2013, 04:43:34 PM »

Thanks agin Steve.

As a slight update I finaly decided to open up the back of the covers of my Seydel Session Steel  - as wide open as they would go. – major improvement. Not quite as good as my SP 20 in same key but not much in it.

Andy
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Harmonicatunes

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Re: Low Hohner SP 20
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2013, 07:08:44 AM »

I'd go with the Hohner Thunderbird.

I have a low G and a low Eb Thunderbird. They blow the socks off the Special 20 equivalents. In particular, the reeds don't rattle against the coverplate, the bane of other low harmonicas.

Chicago based custom harmonica master Joe Filisko was heavily involved in the Thunderbird design. His expertise shows. The extra cost is well worth it.
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Andy

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Re: Low Hohner SP 20
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2013, 05:04:13 PM »

I'd go with the Hohner Thunderbird.

I have a low G and a low Eb Thunderbird. They blow the socks off the Special 20 equivalents. In particular, the reeds don't rattle against the coverplate, the bane of other low harmonicas.

Chicago based custom harmonica master Joe Filisko was heavily involved in the Thunderbird design. His expertise shows. The extra cost is well worth it.
Hi

A question on the Thunderbird here.

Obviously once you get onto seriously low tunings the ends of the reeds need to have quite a lot of mass.
I understand that some manufacturers achieve this with a blob of solder.
Is this the case with the Thunderbird?
If this is the case, at what Low or LowLow tuning do they start using solder to add mass?

Anyone out there know for sure? or able to say whether their own example has solder weighted reeds and what tuning it is.

Thanks
Andy
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Harmonicatunes

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Re: Low Hohner SP 20
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2013, 01:06:27 PM »

I think the Thunderbird reeds are made from scratch. Haven't pulled mine apart to look though.

The Thunderbird is designed from the ground up as a low harmonica
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