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Author Topic: Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion  (Read 6526 times)

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oeilphotography

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Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion
« on: June 27, 2013, 02:01:07 AM »

I would love to learn how to play any of these types of music does anyone have sheet music or tab they can share? Thank you!
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2013, 07:22:52 AM »

Not sure tab is the right way to go on this particular genre, my understanding is that a lot of the music is improvised on simple themes. That may apply to the dances too, though my experience (as a bloke*) is very limited.

Some of the stuff I've heard has been in natural minor, but the key to understanding for me was realising that the music keeps going back to either droned tonic, or a flattened 2nd (usually called b9th from ithe notes position in associated chords). That is, it's "phrygian".  Here are the scales in C (to emphasis flattened notes)

  C Db Eb F G Ab Bb C - classic phrygian minor
  C Db E  F G Ab Bb C - phrygian major, AKA spanish, arabic, or flamenco scale

The b9 is termed its 'sensitive note' and bizarrely governs the minor nature of the scale, you can play the 3rd and 7th as minor or major! Actually a lot of the fun and characteristic style comes from flexing these in play.

This is not too helpful on a diatonic melodeon unless you have an Eb/Ab! We are seeking to use the third 'mode' of the diatonic scale here, G row that's G,A,B, D row it's D,E,F#, start your melodies on these notes and all will be well.  You can simply go up and down the row, but I find it works better crossing rows, played as much as possible on the pull. Find a melody you like from google,  and off you go. Keep returning to those 'sensitive' B and C notes (this for B phrygian), indeed, clash them a bit.

The major :|bl minor version cannot be played solely on rows as it derives from harmonic minor scale. In B "Arabic" you need a D#, in F# it's an A#. Both "accidental" in our terms, but no way "accidental" to oriental music! You can either stick to a true scale, or flex it a bit.  A 12 bass is a boon if you want the right drone note. The (modern) stuff I heard in Istambul varied the 3rd note of the scale mercilessly ;) Second always** flattened.

Focus on feel and play, and "being in a grove". The phrygian major particularly is self-harmonising, it's difficult to hit a bum note  :D Some notes will feel 'tense' and that's good! Your dancer can show off her best "shimmie" at this point; stay with her, only relax to more harmonic notes as she moves on to a more fluid phase of the dance.

I understand there are variants. In Georgia** they danced more fluidly to 'simple' minor tunes. Quite a lot of the Turkish stuff is 9/8. British 'belly' is said mainly to come form Egyptian traditions, and the word itself via French ventre, but the dance is in reality much more about moving the pelvis*

Here's a youtube of a phrygian major tune I sometimes do in sessions. It's a bourrée by Patrick Bouffard "Dromadaire", sort of stressing it's N African roots.

This one is more mainstream - note the rise from its tonic D via b9 Eb, and immediate ambiguity of minor F and major F# .. very early in the intro tune
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 08:49:26 PM by Chris Ryall »
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oeilphotography

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Re: Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2013, 02:42:38 PM »

Wow, thank you for the explanation! That's so great :) and it does make sense that it would be improvised, thanks for the scale as well... I'm goin to give it a go once I get my accordion in the mail! I'm a total newbie to all of this. I am a musician but lack any music theory knowledge :/
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2013, 04:18:58 PM »

Melodeonistas here expressed ennui about my droning on about modes, but it is what diatonic play is about! I typed up what I know on http://chrisryall.net/modes they are fun to explore. Harmonic minor includes a 3 semitone interval and isn't part of this, hence "accidentals"
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Mystery Jig

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Re: Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2013, 05:30:24 PM »

Holy cow! What a great page. fascinating!
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2013, 08:46:10 PM »

Don't get too carried away. Melodeon playing is "about" a good tune, dynamics, sensitivity.

But underpinning that, there is nearly always a classic Greek mode  :neigh:

[PS] in Chichiliane (Isère) last year, Boris Trouplin paired each of us with a dancer, no lead note, allez! We had to play and the dancer improvise a dance, while we observed and improvised accompaniment. It was lovely. I suspect " belly" is rather more structured than that.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 09:00:08 PM by Chris Ryall »
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Matthew B

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Re: Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2013, 09:24:39 PM »

Another wrinkle in the belly-dance (and other North African/Mediterranean musical traditions) is that they use a lot of different scales.  These folks put extra notes into the scales and end up with quarter tones rather than simple semitones.   Fiddlers can get along with that sort of thing because they can "find" the missing notes by shifting their fingers.  Box-players have to get or make special instruments.  There's a rather rough demo of one here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zoQiZwcRQg  There's a great Egyptian accordionist called Farouk Mohamed Hassan who's one of the masters of the quarter-tone accordion.  There's at least one track of his on the Planet Squeezebox CD that you can find on Grooveshark. 

There's also a chap in Sweden called Mats Eden who has a diatonic box with "extra" notes added so he can reproduce the particular ornamentation used by some Swedish fiddlers, but that's another story altogether.   

My guess is that either a Streb or a Roland could be induced to behave like this but it might take a bit of tinkering.   

ps Chris, I think the trick these guys use is to put the drone in the music, rather than in the description of the music. 
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2013, 11:09:25 PM »

Thanks. He's very good, not quite what I'd call "belly" as the b9 isn't there. I personally heard natural minor and some harmonic modes, but all mixed up as you say.

"Blind" I'd place this guy's style in east Bulgaria or Macedonia, picking up on the 322 rhythm, but all these ex Ottoman places merge so much as you say. Quarter toning? Can one really do this on a PA? Can't say I heard it myself and I've always regarded it as a flute or voice thing. eg Trio Bulgarka were geniuses at that sort of thing! Geniuses generally IMHO.
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Mike Hirst

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Re: Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2013, 11:44:10 PM »

I am reliably informed that the melody here is played on a two row chromatic (probably C/C#, but could be G/G#).

Πλακιώτικο ζειμπέκικο
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Mike Hirst

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Re: Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2013, 11:47:56 PM »

Another remarkable diatonic accordion recording, this time from 1911.

ΧΙΩΤΙΚΟΣ ΑΜΑΝΕΣ ΓΙΑΓΚΟΣ ΨΑΜΑΘΙΑΝΟΣ
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Mike Hirst

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Re: Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2013, 11:55:10 PM »

A final offering from HIOTIKOS MANES and her melodeon accompanist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwJmwpu4r_I

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smiley

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Re: Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2013, 12:20:30 AM »

Another remarkable diatonic accordion recording, this time from 1911.

ΧΙΩΤΙΚΟΣ ΑΜΑΝΕΣ ΓΙΑΓΚΟΣ ΨΑΜΑΘΙΑΝΟΣ

Very atmospheric playing (and quite an eyeful as well!) which demonstrates the aural effect of modal scales we're not used to hearing played in english-speaking regions. Powerful stuff.
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Matthew B

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Re: Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2013, 04:22:35 AM »

Chris, I think your ear is way better than mine, as is your grasp of musical theory.  I couldn't honestly tell the difference between a quarter-tone and a not-quite-there-tone.  I suspect that the scales these folks are using may have some subtle variations in them that are not quite the rigidly defined numerical gaps between notes that a digital tuning device might find.  A bit more like the difference between a Cajun-tuned accordion and a regular tuning.  The "extra" notes are squeezed between the "regular" notes which sounds fine in context but goes all to pieces otherwise.  What puzzles me more is how they navigate the piano keyboard.  How does the seven white five black key arrangement accommodate all those extra notes?  The geography of the business seems very tricky indeed.   
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Theo

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Re: Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2013, 07:58:22 AM »

How does the seven white five black key arrangement accommodate all those extra notes?  The geography of the business seems very tricky indeed.

I believe they have (some of) the black notes tuned to different pitches on press and draw!
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 08:15:36 AM by Theo »
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2013, 08:09:38 AM »

Clever, you do need to think outside the melodeon box sometimes!

[edit] found Mike's stuff higher up, I think the second two are 'mainly' in the Phrygian scales, with the 9ths I can hear all flattened. It really seems to be the signature of the place. Other notes 'flexible' and I definitely hear quarter tone in the song, or could we just call it bending?

The non "hard core" is really hardcore musically! b9 again, but the player seems to flex every note. This is all tonal music. As such a diatonic melodeon … isn't the best thing to start with :-\ We might have a go at the song accompaniment, suspect mike has?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 08:25:37 AM by Chris Ryall »
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Mike Hirst

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Re: Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2013, 09:20:17 AM »

I think the second two are 'mainly' in the Phrygian scales

Indeed. I believe that among contemporary Greek musicians it is common to refer to the Phyrigian mode as Ouzak. This a useful scale for extending the melodic possibilities of the one row accordion. I have a small set of modal melodies that I learned from a Greek fisherman when holidaying in Cyprus. Although I struggle with the original modes, Ouzak is a good compromise and produces a pleasing rendition of what feel like very alien structures (Greek 9/8, 7/8, etc).

As a useful starting point for investigation I have listed some of the better known Greek modes below:

========================
Major modes
========================

Very Common:
Hijaz: 1, b2, 3, 4, 5, b6, b7 (the most common) - uses chords I, iv, bvii etc
Hijazskiar: 1, b2, 3, 4, 5, b6, 7 (as in Miserlou by Dick Dale) – uses chords I, bII, iv etc.


Common:
Houzam: 1, #2, 3, 4, 5, b6, 7 – chords I, IV, V
Major (Ionian) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 – chords I, IV, V

Less Common:
Rast (ascending): 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 (chords – I, IV#o, V7) and (descending): b7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 (chords – I, II, iv, V)

Least Common:
Sengah (same as Houzam but different chords)
1, #2, 3, 4, 5, b6, 7 (chords – I, iv, V7, V+

Houzam (bouzouki variant): 1, #2, 3, 4, 5, b6, 7,
(chords I, IV, V)

========================
Minor Modes
========================

Most Common
Ouzak: 1, b2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7, (chords i, iv, bvii etc.)

Common
Diatonic minor/Aeolian: 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7 (chords i, iv, v)
Harmonic Minor: 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, 7 (chords i, iv, V)
Melodic minor: ascending 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, 7 (chords i, iv, V) and descending 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7
Kiourdi: ascending 1, 2, b3, 4, b5, 6, b7, (chords i, biii, bVI) and descending b7, b6, 5, 4, b3, 2, 1
Sabach: 1, 2, b3, bb4, 5, b6, b7 (chords – i, bIV+, bVII)
Niaventi: 1, 2, b3, #4, 5, b6, 7

Less Common: Souzinak 1, 2, b3, #4, 5, 6, b7 (chords – i, IVdim, bVII)
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 09:54:19 AM by Mike Hirst »
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Idelone

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Re: Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2013, 12:51:17 PM »

Other notes 'flexible' and I definitely hear quarter tone in the song, or could we just call it bending?

I would have thought being Mediterranean/Middle Eastern influenced that it would be quarter tone. Take a listen to Enrico Macias, (originally from Algeria, singing about leaving his country), start it at 2:50, and you can hear it.
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dunlustin

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Re: Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2013, 01:04:15 PM »

I have a feeling "belly" has nothing to do with "ventre" (don't see the connection to the Middle East - I think they have their own words for body parts)
My understanding was that it came from a word like "beladi" or "baledi" meaning something like "traditional."
I do know that an Egyptian dancer can get very cross indeed when her dancing is met by a load of US oiks shouting "get 'em out."
Not cross actually - reduced to tears.
Just when did insensitivity become acceptable?
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Matthew B

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Re: Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2013, 01:09:41 PM »

Interesting stuff.  I came across this handy little resource which lays it out quite nicely http://xenharmonic.wikispaces.com/Mike+Sheiman%27s+Very+Easy+Scale+Building+From+The+Harmonic+Series+Page  Tucked into the middle of the page there is a nice comparison of blues scales and middle eastern scales. 

I also like the word "Xenharmonic".  I suppose that makes a middle eastern-tuned accordion a xenharmonika.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Belly Dance / middle eastern accordion
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2013, 01:22:04 PM »

Mike - that's just fantastic (though may be off topic? I'm, unaware of Greek belly dancing tradition)? I'll extend a bit too.

I'll have a gander at Enrico when I'm back from work. But loads of singers seem to quarter-tone notes .. most blues types, Mr Carty, me even! I was sort of asking whether there was real distinction between 25% and 30%?

I 'd like to mosey along the North Anatolian Coast to Georgia. Their "folk" (as opposed to "sacred") music really cuts our western scale apart! In Mike's interval terms:

  Tonic  g1,  3¼  g2  "true fifth"!  g3  g4  octave(+)

It had been described to me as .. tonic and 5 are true, as per most trad music, notes 2,3,4 "evenly spaced" in the lower part of the scale and 6,7 ditto in the upper.

http://www.folkworld.de/37/e/georgia.html cites a tendency for tone to rise (this is song with attitude!) in pitch and I think this means the octave note might be sharp a bit.

By "3¼" I am trying to indicate that their third note is midway between major and minor. Wiki describes it as neutral, but in terms of this thread that's a true quarter-tone interval.

Dolly and I got to eat at a couple of supra feasts, I as a fella had to propose toasts! Both danced afterwards, with a lot of graceful arm waving, sexes going around each other but not touching, the music was aeolian minor (but was fretted instument based)

So "not belly" but some commonality in music. The sacred stuff we heard on sunday was also a capella, aeolian or phryian minors. There were no instuments at all in the cathedral. We saw no melodeons, anywhere! ;)

[edit]  ::) "Zen and the Art of Melodeon playing" - now there's a book title! :o
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 01:23:39 PM by Chris Ryall »
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