Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Hohner Rules the World!  (Read 9992 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Mike Hirst

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1074
  • Primatona IV D/D#, Tritone G/C/B, One Row in D
    • Berking Mad Ceilidh Band
Re: Hohner Rules the World!
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2013, 08:59:47 AM »

Isn`t Mexico classed as south America ? ?  ... I didn`t say Flaco was Mexican , I said he played the music , Aren`t Conjunto / Tejano / Norteno the music of Mexico ? (and Southern Texas of course which is South USA) - I`m not an expert on American boundries of course, I thought anything there south of the USA was classed as South America..

Whatever, Hohners market is bigger over there than the UK hence why they make the effort which was the Point !

Conjunto = USA
Tejano = USA
Norteno = Mexico

Flaco is widely regarded as a pioneer of the Conjunto style, a music typically associated with San Antonio (Texas). Ergo it is an Amercian regional music.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 09:02:42 AM by Mike Hirst »
Logged
you won't get far with that attitude

Adam-T

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1793
  • Hohner Club-Too
Re: Hohner Rules the World!
« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2013, 09:11:11 AM »

Thanks Mike .
Logged
Q: How do you cure MAD?
A: Take a Break from Mel-Net. (IF YOU CAN)

Adam-T

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1793
  • Hohner Club-Too
Re: Hohner Rules the World!
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2013, 09:42:21 AM »

I really like - shall we say - the Accordion music favoured by members of Reyes Accordion forum - to these British ears, it doesn`t sound in the least bit USA to me (neither do the names of the genres or a lot of the players) - but then to me, southern USA = more typified music such as Country & western, bluegrass, and variation orleans Jazz etc but then I`m not very enlightened in the music of the Americas .......

I like this "latino" ? Music, a lot of which came from the Bavarian /austrian music I love and play
Logged
Q: How do you cure MAD?
A: Take a Break from Mel-Net. (IF YOU CAN)

Mike Hirst

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1074
  • Primatona IV D/D#, Tritone G/C/B, One Row in D
    • Berking Mad Ceilidh Band
Re: Hohner Rules the World!
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2013, 09:49:06 AM »

The distinction which Andrew makes is significant in the context of the discussion.

Recent developments in this thread have focused on the distinct regional bias in the adoption of D/G as the dominant melodeon key in many parts of the UK. It has already been indicated there are regional variations here. For example a marked preference for C one row in East Anglia, B/C in Northern Ireland and B/C/C# in Scotland.

To talk of South American Music without distinction does a great disservice to the many regional variations and cultural differences which exist, many of which are defined through adoption of distinctly different free reed instruments. For example bandoneon playing in Brazil, Peru, Argentina and elsewhere, two row playing in Northern Brazil and the widespread use of three row instruments in Columbia.

These variations can be further classified through the preference for different keys. There is a marked preference among Vallenato players for Bb/Eb/Ab instruments (although this is by no means a hard and fast rule). By contrast there are musicians in Northern Brazil who use B/C instruments, but play mostly in F. Whilst others play the same repertoire using quint boxes.

This is without mention of rhythmic and stylistic distinction or reference to context.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 09:57:35 AM by Mike Hirst »
Logged
you won't get far with that attitude

Andrew Wigglesworth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1095
  • 07
    • My website
Re: Hohner Rules the World!
« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2013, 11:10:24 AM »

Mike makes the point well about the real diversity of music in South America, its practice and the instruments it uses.

I have Chilean and Peruvian friends who would be pretty confused or even upset by the lumping together of South American music as "latino". They certainhly don't play the same music as Flaco Jimenez.

As a matter of geographical fact, Mexico is in North America. As for the relationship of the US states of Texas, New Mexico and California to Mexico, then you must refer to the US wars of aggression and what we would now term ethnic cleansing in the mid 19th Century towards Mexico and the annexation of huge areas of Mexico by the USA. After refering to that you might have a look at the dispossession of, discrimination against and criminalisation of the Mexican population that remained, remembering also that many of those people were native Americans such as Pueblo Indians.

Sadly, the image of the "latino" or hispanic in US popular culture is that of the "wetback", the interloper, the illegal. In that context, refering to Flaco Jimenez as "South American" and implications that his music is not really part of North American or US culture ... well I'll leave people to draw their own conclusions.

I know that no-one here was trying to make derogatory remarks against Mexican-Americans or South Americans, though I think my "unhelpful remark" quickly made in the middle of the night before going to bed was warranted and spurred a legitimate debate.

As far as Hohners go in South America. Yes, they do seem to be popular (even ubiquitous) in the different regional styles that use them. I strongly suspect that this is more to do with the virtual monopoly position that Hohner got into (maneuvered themselves into, see threads passim) in so many markets and aggressive sales techniques in South America. The "Hohner sound" became one that typified the music not because people were looking for it initially, but because with the monopoly position this is what people became used to.

The same would have been true of Jimenez's father and the birth of Conjunto I think. It is interesting that the Cajuns largely rejected Hohners (well, the one-row playing ones), probably because they had favoured other German manufacturers boxes of a style that Hohner never seem to have produced.

Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4103
  • Windjammer
    • Wesson Accordions
Re: Hohner Rules the World!
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2013, 11:23:56 AM »

PS
I was just looking at this by sqzbox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gErIb55ML2A

Beautiful tune - handsome Hohner. It looks like a 2-row sold recently on eboy, vaguely Post-war  and sounds Club inspired.
Is this one of  a "better" range that is less well-known - at least to me?

It's the model they made before the Corona series. Commonly known, in this parish, as a Pre-Corona.
Logged
Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
Gungrog, Welshpool, Wales, UK
www.melodeons.com

Steve C.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1657
  • Pokerwork, Erica, Streb, Morse Anglo
Re: Hohner Rules the World!
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2013, 01:15:25 PM »

Andrews reply #52 should be rusticated.
You guys over there do not realize that his  "wars of aggression" direction is getting into "fighting words" territory.
As usual, and as previously stated, the thread was a good one and did get pretty far before being hijacked.
Logged
Located in Central North Carolina, USA; credit for picture: livingplanet.ca

Adam-T

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1793
  • Hohner Club-Too
Re: Hohner Rules the World!
« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2013, 02:15:24 PM »

Well All I was trying to do in my original On Topic post was give a possible explanation as to why Hohner spend time focussing on boxes for the Americas and not bothering for the UK (market driven).. no demographic insults intended - lets face it, many Americans refer to the whole of the UK as "England" which is pretty damn insulting to a Scot !! . people make geographical mistakes , lets leave it at that ! .
Logged
Q: How do you cure MAD?
A: Take a Break from Mel-Net. (IF YOU CAN)

Steve C.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1657
  • Pokerwork, Erica, Streb, Morse Anglo
Re: Hohner Rules the World!
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2013, 03:08:54 PM »

Thanks Adam.

Again back mostly on topic, I learned to play pipe and tabor by hanging the drum by a loop on my left wrist, which, hand also plays the whistle. 

Is there a way to actually hang it from the whistle, and if so, why?  (maybe that's not what you meant, typo?)
Logged
Located in Central North Carolina, USA; credit for picture: livingplanet.ca

Steve C.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1657
  • Pokerwork, Erica, Streb, Morse Anglo
Re: Hohner Rules the World!
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2013, 03:11:49 PM »

Also back mostly on topic, why are Gabanelli's so popular in tex-mex?

I always thought it was the bling, but maybe there is a better reason.  I have only played a few Gabs and they were low end and junky.

But as previously mentioned in the thread, when you read the reyes.forum you see a lot of folks loving their Gabs and downplaying Hohners.
Logged
Located in Central North Carolina, USA; credit for picture: livingplanet.ca

GPS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3181
  • MAD as a wet Hohner........
Re: Hohner Rules the World!
« Reply #50 on: July 31, 2013, 03:20:14 PM »

Andrews reply #52 should be rusticated.

The right of Free Speech....?    Voltaire had it right.
Logged
Among others, Saltarelle Pastourelle II D/G; Hohner 4-stop 1-rows in C & G; assorted Hohners; 3-voice German (?) G/C of uncertain parentage; lovely little Hlavacek 1-row Heligonka; B♭/E♭ Koch. Newly acquired G/C Hohner Viktoria. Also Fender Jazz bass, Telecaster, Stratocaster, Epiphone Sheraton, Charvel-Jackson 00-style acoustic guitar and other stuff..........

Squeezing in the Cyprus sunshine

Steve C.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1657
  • Pokerwork, Erica, Streb, Morse Anglo
Re: Hohner Rules the World!
« Reply #51 on: July 31, 2013, 03:45:59 PM »

GPS, all:

I agree completely with the free speech, open opinions, etc. etc.

BUT, the melnet is supposed to be about melodeons and related, is it not?

And although previous posters may be "right", I don't know that this is place to show debate it.

For my next trick, I shall start a thread:  "Use of Melodeons in the Middle East"  >:E
Logged
Located in Central North Carolina, USA; credit for picture: livingplanet.ca

Adam-T

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1793
  • Hohner Club-Too
Re: Hohner Rules the World!
« Reply #52 on: July 31, 2013, 04:05:58 PM »

There would seem to be two levels of Gabs - the type you seem to get over there which as you say seem to be junky with equally poor support and the Superb Italian made ones we get imported over here made to the same standards as the likes of Dino Baffetti, Serenellini, PierMaria etc .. Baffetti have made blingy melodeons for ages, I have an 80s window box with as much as a Red-pearl-III Celebration ..  Hohner answered the bling thing with the Italian made Anacletos who were made by CMI, Piermaria, Gab-Italy (or all three they maybe/ have been connected) ..

I remember reading on Reyes (correct me if I`m wrong) that there were two arms to the Gabbanelli business, the fathers original business which is still in Italy turning out the quality stuff we see in the UK (Boxes like "Fat Elvis", a 9 switch owned by a member of this parish) and a son or cousin (or something) doing the stateside boxes which garner the dissappointment on reyes .. Maybe there`s an importer of the decent ones in the USA ? . 
Logged
Q: How do you cure MAD?
A: Take a Break from Mel-Net. (IF YOU CAN)

Steve C.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1657
  • Pokerwork, Erica, Streb, Morse Anglo
Re: Hohner Rules the World!
« Reply #53 on: July 31, 2013, 04:32:38 PM »

Adam, I don't know, you are more knowledgeable on this than me.
But that would makes sense.

Also, as I understand it, "Hohner"-identified players like Tony Hall and Philippe Bruneau don't actually have Hohner reeds and often have other major modifications "inside".

Is this true?

The US Hohner custom shop seems to do this pretty much for anyone. ($$$)
Logged
Located in Central North Carolina, USA; credit for picture: livingplanet.ca

Sage Herb

  • Steve Harrison
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 762
  • Slaithwaite, UK
    • The Black Box Band
Re: Hohner Rules the World!
« Reply #54 on: July 31, 2013, 05:03:53 PM »


Also, as I understand it, "Hohner"-identified players like Tony Hall and Philippe Bruneau don't actually have Hohner reeds and often have other major modifications "inside".

Is this true?
Don't know about the famous names, but one of my pre-war Erikas has Cagnoni reeds (installed by Theo) and another has Bincis. But they still feel like Hohners to me.
Logged
Hohner Erikas & Club 2s
Hohner gob-harps:
Vega Senator 5-string banjo; Alex Burns plectrum guitar

Black Box Band - www.theblackboxband.co.uk
Annie Dearman & Steve Harrison - www.dearmanharrison.co.uk
Phoenix - www.phoenixdanceband.co.uk
http://soundcloud.com/sage-herb

Theo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11767
  • Hohner Club Too
    • The Box Place
Re: Hohner Rules the World!
« Reply #55 on: July 31, 2013, 06:03:56 PM »

Tony Hall certainly has Hohner reeds in his.  Can't say about others.

Actually Hohner reeds are not poor quality, the way they are usually tuned is not very good, and once they are set up they are considerably better than Italian machine made reeds. Once again though its not a simple quality range with 'good' at one end and 'bad' at the other.
Logged
Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

Proprietor of The Box Place for melodeon and concertina sales and service.
Follow me on Twitter and Facebook for stock updates.

Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4103
  • Windjammer
    • Wesson Accordions
Re: Hohner Rules the World!
« Reply #56 on: July 31, 2013, 08:38:09 PM »


Rees: The 2-row I mentioned on eboy also had those metal additions on the shoulders which I think look v stylish. Have I just not noticed them when they've come up before?
Were they sold on the English market or only up North?

The metal shoulder decoration is common on that model. Quite a lot were in semi-tone keys, B/C/C# etc. so quite a lot in Scotland I would think.
Logged
Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
Gungrog, Welshpool, Wales, UK
www.melodeons.com

Steve C.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1657
  • Pokerwork, Erica, Streb, Morse Anglo
Re: Hohner Rules the World!
« Reply #57 on: July 31, 2013, 09:43:18 PM »

Thanks Theo, I will go and "have words" with the fellow that told me Tony Hall has special innards.
Logged
Located in Central North Carolina, USA; credit for picture: livingplanet.ca

Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4103
  • Windjammer
    • Wesson Accordions
Re: Hohner Rules the World!
« Reply #58 on: August 01, 2013, 11:11:40 AM »

Tony's melodeons are bog standard with no modifications whatsoever - that's why they are so clacky.

Another vote here for Hohner reeds, when properly tuned they are superb.
Logged
Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
Gungrog, Welshpool, Wales, UK
www.melodeons.com

KLR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 588
Re: Hohner Rules the World!
« Reply #59 on: August 01, 2013, 05:58:49 PM »

2) "Kerrs Merrie Melodies for the Violin" 4 books with about 450 tunes in each were on sale in Newcastle on a sheet music stall in the large Arcade at the back of the Butchers Market off Granger St.
3) The vast majority of tunes in these books were in D or G with a good number in A and some in Bb. There were tunes in C, F, E & Eb but these were very rare.

I have the 4 Kerr's books - there are more out there too! - I'd been wondering for a while what the ratio of tunes in each key is in there.  Well, here you go:

G   604
D   586
A   323
C   271
Bb   110
F   101

Data from James Stewart's Index of Tunes.  Given that they were Scottish publications I expected more in A.  London born Irish fiddler Kevin Burke told me recently that his first tunebook was one of the Kerr's. 

North America is everything from Panama north.  The continents only joined up a few million years back, there's an obvious geographic distinction there.  Conflating Tex Mex and even Venezuelan melodeon, that's reallllllly broad.  It'd be like saying "John Kirkpatrick, he's great!  I love Bulgarian music!"   ;)

I've saved up the list of diatonic box players from around the world that's at the wiki page on diatonic button accordion, every now and then I cue up one from that list on YouTube.  We truly are blessed these days, the ease with which one can learn about music from around the globe.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal