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Author Topic: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix  (Read 16011 times)

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docEdock

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Re: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2013, 02:34:49 PM »

My effort is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTqLTrIk9zY I've been working on the tune with Guus Herremans who has kindly taken on the task of scrubbing my slate clean of bad mazurka habits. I do hope he can hear a difference between this submission and the one I cooked up last year in Atlanta. Should he show it to Pascale perhaps she will think, ah, a mazurka and recognize her lovely composition.

The earphone? That is so the metronome can whisper, "One, two, three, ma, zu, ka," in imitation of the brave women who have dodged my feet this last month. Their work continues, perhaps as early as tomorrow night where Cardin makes its live debut as the band at a Clandestine Mazurka in Ghent.

Thanks to everyone for the tunes posted so far. I hope to recruit some Belgium players and record some local submissions.
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Lost Alamos

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Re: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2013, 04:42:25 PM »

 ;)Great

LA
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2013, 04:54:47 PM »

I may just peddle up to Flanders. It has rained solidly 48 hours here. If it is to be "mud" one might as well have the real thing? Also a feck-sight nearer Whitby than here …  :|glug

[ed] Got it to load now, (failed this afternoon), come on very nicely. a pleasure.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 08:10:10 PM by Chris Ryall »
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2013, 08:03:29 PM »

DocEDock,
I am in awe of your dedication/musical curiosity/ application /generosity ....I'll save any further blushes.
Most of all though is the joy you are getting from this adventure.

dunlustin took the words right out of my mouth! Beautifully played!  ;D
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Steve Fox

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Re: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2013, 11:33:16 PM »

My effort is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTqLTrIk9zY I've been working on the tune with Guus Herremans who has kindly taken on the task of scrubbing my slate clean of bad mazurka habits. I do hope he can hear a difference between this submission and the one I cooked up last year in Atlanta. Should he show it to Pascale perhaps she will think, ah, a mazurka and recognize her lovely composition.
Wow!  Beautiful playing.  Thank you.
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docEdock

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Re: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2013, 07:00:36 AM »

Well I am blushing. Thanks for the compliments.

One thing I love about TOTM is how it helps me focus and strive to play my best and then leaves a video milestone to mark that effort. When I wonder whether I'm making any progress at all, I look at my past videos and take solace. Then I look at TOTM submitted by others and understand just how much further this journey should take me. So, thanks to melnet for keeping TOTM alive and kicking.
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Chris Brimley

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Re: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2013, 02:53:30 AM »

Lovely playing from lots of people here. I'm still working on it myself.

By definition off topic, but I hope you'll forgive me noting this link from Pascale and Naragonia: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vnRkdpe608U&feature=related
Pure magic!
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2013, 10:44:35 AM »

By definition off topic, but I hope you'll forgive me noting this link from Pascale and Naragonia ... Pure magic!

One of my favourite Youtube clips, an object lesson in how to use dynamics. Toon Van Mierlo, the other half of Naragonia is more usually seen playing a bagpipe but he's a top box player too. The tune "Les deux frères" was written by Toon and it's in The Naragonia Tune Book.
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Re: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2013, 12:32:02 PM »

Can someone please tell me which layout they have on their Handry 18s please.

Thanks,
Tim
P.s. lovely playing docEdock and thanks for posting that clip Chris.
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Chris Brimley

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Re: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2013, 06:19:14 PM »

I'm struggling with the LH rhythm on this, and I wondered if anyone can help.  Here's some of the issues I'm trying to understand:

Pascale has a very subtle and free LH style, which often uses the '1,-,3,1' pattern.

Other players use a quite simple 'boom, chik, chik' bass pattern for mazurkas, and in the case of Pignol and Milleret, they seem to use the RH staccato style to add offbeat rhythm very effectively over the top of that.

A mazurka is often said to have a '1,2,3, maa-zur-kaa' pattern for dancers, but I've noticed that many musicians give more emphasis - one possibility is to say that you could play '1 -3, maa, zp-r, kaa', so leaving out the 2nd dotted crotchet in the first bar and the 5th quaver in the second bar, thus emphasising the hop on the 5th beat. (Hope that makes sense?)

Also, it seems that many dances don't stick to this alternate bar format anyway.

I've listened to a few examples, but can't find much guidance.

Any comments, anyone?  Playing a mazurka for an experienced group of dancers must be really good fun to do.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2013, 06:46:45 PM »

Pascale has a very subtle and free LH style, which often uses the '1,-,3,1' pattern.

Other players use a quite simple 'boom, chik, chik' bass pattern for mazurkas, and in the case of Pignol and Milleret, they seem to use the RH staccato style to add offbeat rhythm very effectively over the top of that.

Stéph would say «anything except boom cha cha»!

Quote
A mazurka is often said to have a '1,2,3, maa-zur-kaa' pattern for dancers, but I've noticed that many musicians give more emphasis - one possibility is to say that you could play '1 -3, maa, zp-r, kaa', so leaving out the 2nd dotted crotchet in the first bar and the 5th quaver in the second bar, thus emphasising the hop on the 5th beat. (Hope that makes sense?)

Also, it seems that many dances don't stick to this alternate bar format anyway.

I've listened to a few examples, but can't find much guidance.

See my recent mazurka videos. Basically boom cha cha works for the traditional paysanne mazurka, but bal folk nowadays, they don't dance like that. The dance is asymmetric, and the second mazurka step is fitted into the final 450o turn au fut, à la mesure

The simplest Lh that works is bum (a tap) cha(cut short) nothing. The Milleret video has more complex things on offer, but t'aint easy solo.
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Chris Brimley

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Re: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2013, 06:58:09 PM »

Quote
Stéph would say «anything except boom cha cha»!

Which is why I was surprised to see that his soft LH approach was just that on his 3/3 rhythm vid - but he used the RH to great effect - same as on Norbert Pignol's Dedale recordings, I thought.

Quote
The dance is asymmetric

Can you elucidate a bit?

Maybe the problem is that musicians have to fit a rhythm to a changing dance? 

Do you have any comments on the '1 -3, maa, zp-r, kaa', idea, Chris?
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2013, 07:12:21 PM »

the dancers will do different things, some intentionally off rhythm. I think just keep it open.

I'm sure 1-3 works to. Been working up a JP Sarzier one on hols. Is it a mazurka, is it a polska?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 10:44:37 PM by Chris Ryall »
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waltzman

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Re: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2013, 09:54:30 PM »

Quote
Stéph would say «anything except boom cha cha»!

Which is why I was surprised to see that his soft LH approach was just that on his 3/3 rhythm vid - but he used the RH to great effect - same as on Norbert Pignol's Dedale recordings, I thought.

Quote
The dance is asymmetric

Can you elucidate a bit?

Maybe the problem is that musicians have to fit a rhythm to a changing dance? 

Do you have any comments on the '1 -3, maa, zp-r, kaa', idea, Chris?


Even though the dance is composed of 'waltz steps' and 'mazurka steps' the rhythmic lilt doesn't change.  I think it is very helpful to be able to tap your foot on 3-1, 3-1.  This is the rhythmic emphasis that you want and it is essentially the same throughout the tune but of course there are various ways to emphasize that 3-1 feel. I think Polska does have the same rhythmic emphasis but to me feels less fluid and more angular than the mazurka....but it's all subjective.  Just my two cents.
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Gary P Chapin

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Re: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2013, 10:00:16 PM »

My effort is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTqLTrIk9zY ...

Is the ear bud for a metronome?  I've been thinking of trying that to get my timing more solid.
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docEdock

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Re: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2013, 10:40:25 PM »

My effort is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTqLTrIk9zY ...

Is the ear bud for a metronome?  I've been thinking of trying that to get my timing more solid.

Exactly. I use Bounce Metronome, set to swing and at the speed Pascale Rubens plays the piece, to record an mp3 and then listen to it on a player. I find its stern tic toc toc helps me avoid the roller coaster effect of racing through the easy parts and slowing on the uphills. I thought of simply having Pascale play the tune in my ear, but that seemed cheating.
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2013, 11:15:57 PM »

I thought of simply having Pascale play the tune in my ear, but that seemed cheating.

Nothing at all wrong with the idea of using a metronome, I find them quite distracting but that's because I'm a poor musician and my OCD tendencies make me obey the beat without question and lose all the lovely swing and variety that makes music musical!
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Re: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2013, 09:57:54 AM »

Quite a few members of my melodeon pantheon have recommended practicing with a metronome. When I try it, I get so frustrated and and convinced the "stupid" metronome is broken as it speeds up and slows down without reason.

I found the tip in another thread re stage fright about having two places in the house to practice so useful. In this context I would use the metronome to practice in the practice area where you focus on technique but not in the area where you practice playing for audience where you can't stop and try and play musically.

Thanks anyway for reminding me about the existence of the tool - I had somehow pushed it into my subconscious and conveniently forgotten about it.
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Re: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2013, 11:55:23 AM »

Metronomes, the use of...

My personal opinion is that a metronome is a useful tool to establish the starting speed of a tune, but then it should be switched off. It is tyranny to attempt to play with the blimmin' thing ticking away and certainly does not encourage musical playing.

The tempo of sensitively played music shifts about, and I'm not talking about sloppy playing here. Music, even strict-time music for dancing, should be able to 'borrow time' from one part of a bar or phrase, and then 'pay it back' in the rest of the bar/phrase. It's what gives music life. A metronome normally kills that life.

It's worth attempting to play along with a metronome as an exercise a couple of times or so, just to see what it's like, but then put the idea to one side.

If you find that you are a person who tends to speed up whilst playing, you need to cultivate your own internal silent pulse and play along to that, not a metronome. The sort of pulse required is the feeling you get when walking or jogging with a good steady stride along a flat even path; you don't need a metronome to tell you how to walk evenly, so you shouldn't need one for playing music either. Try establishing your playing speed with the metronome; switch it off; play the tune; remember the speed with which you finished the tune and switch on the metronome again to compare. If there is a considerable difference, you need to work more on that internal pulse.

The only time a metronome-like tick is unfortunately necessary is when making a multitrack recording. You have to have something to enable you or the recording engineer to synchronise the tracks. This is extraordinarily difficult to play along to, even for accomplished musicians, mainly because of the normal need to be flexible with pulse, as described above. It's also better/easier to have a rhythm track to play along to, e.g. a drum/percussion track rather than the soulless studio-generated 'click'.

This is the advice I give to my students and anyone else who asks me. It's my opinion, but as always, YMMV.
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Theo

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Re: Tune of the Month for August 2013: Le Lac de St Croix
« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2013, 12:27:43 PM »


Even though the dance is composed of 'waltz steps' and 'mazurka steps' the rhythmic lilt doesn't change.  I think it is very helpful to be able to tap your foot on 3-1, 3-1.  This is the rhythmic emphasis that you want and it is essentially the same throughout the tune but of course there are various ways to emphasize that 3-1 feel. I think Polska does have the same rhythmic emphasis but to me feels less fluid and more angular than the mazurka....but it's all subjective.  Just my two cents.

I think that is right regarding emphasis, but there is an important difference from waltz time which seems not to have bee mentioned namely that the three beats are more or less the same length, unlike the waltz where the first beat is longer.  This gives the paradoxical feel that the second beat has more emphasis than in a waltz, even it is not played!
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