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[baz parkes]

Also... (and back on topic) I was more or less ordered to get an Oakwood by the squire of Hammersmith morris after trying to compete with the Richmond-on-Thames traffic with a Pokerwork, on a day when Ian wasn't there with his Oakwood. I did, of course, and the rest is history..
[/quote

was he paying? 

[Graham Spencer]

Apologies for the flippancy above ... But I always wonder when I see the sort of question in the title of this thread whether the person asking is actually winding us up!  It might as well be asking "should I put marmite or honey on my toast?"

I'm not sure I understand your analogy, since the answer to that question is quite obviously "honey"

No, the answer is "marmalade"....

[Peter G]

I only have a Pokerwork and a Castagnari tommy (which is far too expensive to risk damage by taking outside)  but I was once recommended a Bafetti Balck Pearl as being sturdy and loud so good for morris - comments ladies and gents?
Peter

[malcolmbebb]

I know one player who plays a Black Pearl, couple of other Dino players with other models.

[IanD]

I only have a Pokerwork and a Castagnari tommy (which is far too expensive to risk damage by taking outside)  but I was once recommended a Bafetti Balck Pearl as being sturdy and loud so good for morris - comments ladies and gents?
Peter

The Black Pearl is the celluloid version of the wooden Carnival II so the two are pretty much equivalent except maybe celluloid finish is more damage-resistant, both are very good reasonably-priced boxes for morris.

The Baffetti Binci is a Carnival II with Binci reeds, a more open grille and an added bass end stop; it's considerably louder and brighter than either of the above which is why it's very highly rated for morris, but it's also about 50% more expensive.

You pays your money and you takes your choice... :-)

[IanD]

Also... (and back on topic) I was more or less ordered to get an Oakwood by the squire of Hammersmith morris after trying to compete with the Richmond-on-Thames traffic with a Pokerwork, on a day when Ian wasn't there with his Oakwood. I did, of course, and the rest is history..
[/quote

was he paying? 

No, but I strongly suspect Anahata was looking for a good excuse to get one anyway ;-)

[Anahata]

The Black Pearl is the celluloid version of the wooden Carnival II
...
The Baffetti Binci is a Carnival II with Binci reeds, a more open grille and an added bass end stop; it's considerably louder and brighter than either of the above

I looked at a Black Pearl when I was looking for a new box, and it was one of the few other boxes I liked, but without a doubt the Oakwood was brighter in tone.

No, but I strongly suspect Anahata was looking for a good excuse to get one anyway ;-)

Funny you should say that...

[Adam-T]

I had a a black pearl II and although it was a lovely box, I found it far less than projecting compared to the Hohner pair, in fact if anything it was on the muffled side - the older Window Celebration-III in A/D I have is a lot clearer and has more tremelo but is still "Civilised" compared to an Erica or Pokerwork  ..

I really like my late 80s D/G Baffetti Irish-1 LMMM, (Native D/G too not a re-tuned C#/D or anything) for Morris but despite being compact for a 4 voice (based on the trad Paolo mould) many would find it a handful.

[IanD]

I had a a black pearl II and although it was a lovely box, I found it far less than projecting compared to the Hohner pair, in fact if anything it was on the muffled side - the older Window Celebration-III in A/D I have is a lot clearer and has more tremelo but is still "Civilised" compared to an Erica or Pokerwork  ..

I really like my late 80s D/G Baffetti Irish-1 LMMM, (Native D/G too not a re-tuned C#/D or anything) for Morris but despite being compact for a 4 voice (based on the trad Paolo mould) many would find it a handful.

Like I said earlier, I think there's a big step-up in "morris quality" between the Black Pearl/Carnival II and the Baffetti Binci which more than justifies the cost difference -- soundwise I'd prefer an Erica to the cheaper Baffettis (which are better built and nicer to play), but IMHO both are better morris boxes than most of the more expensive continental ones.

I'd still say that for a cheaper morris box the Erica is the best, and that the Baffetti Binci is better assuming you can afford one. YMMV...

[george garside]

having read right through this thread I can only think that some must be very well off to be able to afford to use various assorted ''costaloties'' for the rough and tumble of morris in varying weather conditions and within and without of assorted pubs full of  morris persons in various states of beer swilling!

Hohner pokerworks were at one time more or less the standard box for morris and  the dancers never complained about the volume, tone, 'carrying power' or whatever of the music so why do they now appear , going from  comments on this thread, to need  aforementioned assorted costaloties?

For me the best Morris box is and will remain  a cheap secondhand pokerwork  , and yes, I  do have a couple of ''costafairlylotties'' so am in no way biased against them - but have no wish to bring about their  premature demise!


george

[pikey]

Seconded !

[Steve_freereeder]

having read right through this thread I can only think that some must be very well off to be able to afford to use various assorted ''costaloties'' for the rough and tumble of morris in varying weather conditions and within and without of assorted pubs full of  morris persons in various states of beer swilling!

Hohner pokerworks were at one time more or less the standard box for morris and  the dancers never complained about the volume, tone, 'carrying power' or whatever of the music so why do they now appear , going from  comments on this thread, to need  aforementioned assorted costaloties?

For me the best Morris box is and will remain  a cheap secondhand pokerwork  , and yes, I  do have a couple of ''costafairlylotties'' so am in no way biased against them - but have no wish to bring about their  premature demise!

It also depends on how strictly the title of this thread is interpreted. I'm not inviting a debate on how 'Morris' is defined, but let's suppose that we take it to mean 'what is the best melodeon for playing for traditional dance outdoors'.

I play for Ouse Washes Molly Dancers. We have five musicians who play melodeon (although we are rarely all there altogether at any one spot). Of those five, four of us play Castagnari melodeons (Handry, Hascy, Laura, Studio) and one plays a Saltarelle (Nuage). For our dances it is the quality and the variations of the sound we produce which is important. It's not just about volume or carrying power, although we have that too.

Many of the Ouse Washes dances are theatrical - they tell a story, sometimes very sinister. The variety of tonal range which our instruments have allow us to change the sound from bright to dark, loud to soft, as required. Our music is an integral part of the performance, not just some accompanying noise. We could not achieve the effects we want just using Pokerworks.

Yes - our instruments cost more than Pokerworks and although we take care of them, it doesn't mean we get paranoid about them. If there is a light drizzle we will take advantage of strategically held umbrellas, but heavy rain will rule out a performance from the dancers as well as the musicians. After we've played, the instruments go back in their cases and this means that they are pretty much protected from beer-swilers in the pub. This is basic, common-sense, care and attention. Anyone who perpetually carries their instrument around unprotected, dangling by a strap from their shoulder, is asking for trouble.

[george garside]

   

  For our dances it is the quality and the variations of the sound we produce which is important. It's not just about volume or carrying power, although we have that too.

Many of the Ouse Washes dances are theatrical - they tell a story, sometimes very sinister. The variety of tonal range which our instruments have allow us to change the sound from bright to dark, loud to soft, as required. 

Tony Hall seems to do quite nicely in this respect with the humble pokerwork(s)

george

[ladydetemps]

Who's this Morris chap anyway?  

[Steve_freereeder]

For our dances it is the quality and the variations of the sound we produce which is important. It's not just about volume or carrying power, although we have that too.

Many of the Ouse Washes dances are theatrical - they tell a story, sometimes very sinister. The variety of tonal range which our instruments have allow us to change the sound from bright to dark, loud to soft, as required. 

Tony Hall seems to do quite nicely in this respect with the humble pokerwork(s)

Maybe so, and make no mistake, I think Tony's playing is superb. But as far as I'm aware I don't think he plays for Morris or other outdoor dance.

P.S. I've sorted your quotes out for you, George 

[David J]

Well, having read this thread I would have to concur 100% with Ian Dedic - probably because I have a Dedic tuned Baffetti Binci - but from my perspective it ticks all the boxes for morris playing. It's loud, dynamic and lightweight, so it's absolutely no problem to play and carry around all day at a festival. If you can afford one of course.

I also use a Pokerwork, which according to some of the dancers in my side sounds louder, so I think wetter tuning certainly has a perceived difference. The basses do not project half as well though, and as regards playing quality there is no contest. It's slower, clunkier and even though I wear a padded sports wrist band, the thin bass end strap and the sharp corner leave aches and pains after a whole day (I know, I'm not manly enough etc). Don't get me wrong, I love the Hohner sound, and if I was playing for a Cotswold side I might use it more, probably in a vain attempt to sound more like John K . . .

[Anahata]

I also use a Pokerwork, which according to some of the dancers in my side sounds louder, so I think wetter tuning certainly has a perceived difference. The basses do not project half as well though

Funny thing about basses - the Pokerwork has some quite low reeds on the bass, but deep != loud and the low notes simply don't carry. The DB Binci has basses with much more sound at higher pitches (three reeds vs. the Pokerwork's two, and the extra one's an octave higher) and that's what you actually hear at a distance. Ian's Oakwood also has three reeds on the basses, and that contributes a lot to its overall loudness and carrying power.

[IanD]

I also use a Pokerwork, which according to some of the dancers in my side sounds louder, so I think wetter tuning certainly has a perceived difference. The basses do not project half as well though

Funny thing about basses - the Pokerwork has some quite low reeds on the bass, but deep != loud and the low notes simply don't carry. The DB Binci has basses with much more sound at higher pitches (three reeds vs. the Pokerwork's two, and the extra one's an octave higher) and that's what you actually hear at a distance. Ian's Oakwood also has three reeds on the basses, and that contributes a lot to its overall loudness and carrying power.

Indeed it does, that was one of the design changes I got Martyn to do when he made it (along with bigger bass reed blocks) to improve the weak bass end of the Oakwoods he'd made up to then. Three reeds on the bass notes as well as the chords also equalises the volume and tone a bit better between the bass and the chord which I think sounds better.

[Helena Handcart]

I have a Dedic tuned Baffetti Binci

A very lovely thing it is too...

I also use a Pokerwork ... and even though I wear a padded sports wrist band, the thin bass end strap and the sharp corner leave aches and pains after a whole day (I know, I'm not manly enough etc).

I wear a leather wrist strap and have never had a problem. I do hope this does not mean I'm more manly than you? 

[Nick Collis Bird]

 Rusticated Chanson for me gang.