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Author Topic: A newly-identified photo of P. J. Conlon  (Read 14814 times)

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triskel

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Re: A newly-identified photo of P. J. Conlon
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2013, 04:54:19 PM »

Another great example of a player using the "single left shoulder strap" posture on what is probably an early Baldoni-Bartoli D box ( flags on the front of the case, metal grille, possibly metal keyboard?, and left-hand casework like the Conlon and Likely boxes).  Check out 00:12 here:

http://vimeo.com/75167557

It's starting to look like Joe Flanagan was the "odd-man-out" in playing with the strap over his right shoulder!  :o

pgroff

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Re: A newly-identified photo of P. J. Conlon
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2013, 05:33:31 PM »

Another great example of a player using the "single left shoulder strap" posture on what is probably an early Baldoni-Bartoli D box ( flags on the front of the case, metal grille, possibly metal keyboard?, and left-hand casework like the Conlon and Likely boxes).  Check out 00:12 here:

http://vimeo.com/75167557

It's starting to look like Joe Flanagan was the "odd-man-out" in playing with the strap over his right shoulder!  :o

Yes, I think the single (left) shoulder strap + thumbstrap was very common among the players of the earliest Baldoni-Bartoli 1-row models (the boxes made ca 1928 - early 1930s).  We have some photographic evidence anyway in this thread for

Conlon perhaps?
Meehan
Casey perhaps? [though his box may have been labeled A. Iorio or ?]
T. J. Flanagan [perhaps a Walters box]
The unnamed player of the McDempsey (?) box

and I think there were a few more, including Tom Treacy when playing his early 1-row Baldoni (photo in the Cuz Teahan book, The Road to Glountane, p. 62). 

See also Tom Carmody, who played an early Baldoni-Bartoli similar to the McNulty box, then a later 1930s Baldoni-Bartoli, then his big 17-key Iorio.  In the clip below, around 0:53, Carmody is playing that pretty tall Iorio box, in the single-left-shoulder-strap posture he perhaps used earlier with the Baldoni:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3grRZKNMK9o

Of course, some of the "early adopters" of the Baldoni-Bartoli D boxes, around the late 20s - early 30s, seem to have stayed with the thumbstrap alone.  The photos I have of William Sullivan (1929 Baldoni-Bartoli) and of Anne "Ma" McNulty (early Baldoni-Bartoli and also later Superior and Walters 1-rows, 1940s - 1950s) show them using only the thumbstrap (as Anne had done with her earlier Globe or International melodeon).

Even on the larger boxes, some of these skilled players could handle them very well without the shoulder strap. 

Digressing a little (to a CCE Britain group in the 1980s and an Irish player with a C#/D box): one of the most remarkable cases of "persistent shoulder strap avoidance" that I know was John Joe Gannon, who was still using the thumbstrap without shoulder strap with a big red Paolo -- very effectively, at a great old age:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FBJ1MvZNWo

Back to the players of the earliest Baldoni-Bartoli Irish 1-row boxes, the left-side shoulder strap posture does however seem to have been prominent, and I have a hunch that this may be one aspect of Conlon's influence on those players.  The newly-discovered Conlon photo (especially if a better image can be obtained) promises to throw more light on that question.

PG
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 06:54:05 PM by pgroff »
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triskel

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Re: A newly-identified photo of P. J. Conlon
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2013, 06:52:55 PM »

It looks like Jerry O'Brien must have taught his pupils to play with it over the right shoulder too (though I've never seen a photo of him that shows a shoulder strap), because they all did.

Edited to reinstate photos lost to Photobucket

pgroff

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Re: A newly-identified photo of P. J. Conlon
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2013, 07:11:56 PM »

Hi Stephen,

I think you are right re: Jerry O'Brien's teaching in Boston.  I met many of his students over the years, but most of them learned in the late 1930s, 1940s, or early 1950s -- when the two row D/C# was taking over, or had done so.  It was a different era from the roaring twenties and early depression years in which the first Baldoni-Bartoli Irish 1-row boxes were made.

Aside from the famous and brilliant Joe Derrane, one of Jerry's best students IMO is my friend and mentor Jack Conroy.  Here's a photo from Jack's induction into the CCE hall of fame,* as another example proving your point. Jack is playing the Walters he bought new as a young man, in 1949.

PG

*
http://www.cceboston.org/jackConroy.html

« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 07:21:21 PM by pgroff »
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KLR

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Re: A newly-identified photo of P. J. Conlon
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2013, 07:31:40 PM »

There's also "Riobard O'Dwyer
," who I took to be Richie D, the box playing composer brother of Finbarr and Michael, but seems to be some other gent from Co. Cork - nice player at any rate, and not a shoulder strap man either. 
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triskel

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Re: A newly-identified photo of P. J. Conlon
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2013, 07:44:44 PM »

There's also "Riobard O'Dwyer
... not a shoulder strap man either.

OMG  :o  he's playing a 9-coupler Paolo Soprani like it's a concertina!

mory

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Re: A newly-identified photo of P. J. Conlon
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2013, 08:20:44 PM »

What's the betting that bottom strap is still on? Great stuff.
The left shoulder strap position makes for a dual purpose out and about style, finish playing and the box just slides round to your back for carrying and you never have to let go of it.  It does seem to offer a comfortable position giving lots of stability, but you do need a long strap. I've fiddled with it occasionally when having to stand with a single strap (hit and run busking, there's bylaws where I live  ;)). AtB mory

Works well with this little strap addition
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 08:50:22 PM by mory »
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triskel

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Re: A newly-identified photo of P. J. Conlon
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2013, 04:50:00 PM »

Jerry O'Brien ... I've never seen a photo of him that shows a shoulder strap ...

Though, thinking about it, even those 1947 grey Paolo Soprani D/C#, 4-voice, 19-key boxes, the model that Jerry O'Brien played and probably designed (to sound like a melodeon) for O'Byrne de Witt too, seem to have had thumb straps on them - or, at least, mine once did because there's a hole in the back of the keyboard where it would have been fastened. Did he even use a shoulder strap himself?

He's got his grey Paolo Soprani (with his name on it, of course!) in the famous 1947 photo of himself and Joe Derrane, and mine is in the photo below it.

Edited to reinstate photos lost to Photobucket

pgroff

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Re: A newly-identified photo of P. J. Conlon
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2013, 05:18:23 PM »

Hi Stephen,

Yes, The D/C# boxes sold by O'Byrne DeWitt in Boston from the late 1940s through the 1950s, both the "OBD Baldonis" and the "OBD Paolo Sopranis," have the thumbstrap hardware in every case I can remember. Sometimes very nicely machined, nickle-plated brass hardware as with the late-1940s box on the left below. But the later Paolo D/C# at right below, that lacks the O'Byrne DeWitt name and turned up in NYC, never had the thumbstrap hardware.  The black "Baldoni-Bartoli" labeled, decorated, Paolo-esque D/C# that Joe Derrane owned around the time of his cd "Give us Another" has or had thumbstrap hardware installed, but I'm not sure if that was original equipment on that box.

http://www.celticcafe.com/archive/Hitchner/Joe_Derrane/images/Joe_Derrane2_450.jpg
http://www.celticcafe.com/archive/Hitchner/Joe_Derrane/images/Joe_Derrane1_450.jpg

PG

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pgroff

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Re: A newly-identified photo of P. J. Conlon
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2013, 09:32:04 AM »


I think the single (left) shoulder strap + thumbstrap was very common among the players of the earliest Baldoni-Bartoli 1-row models (the boxes made ca 1928 - early 1930s).  . .

Back to the players of the earliest Baldoni-Bartoli Irish 1-row boxes, the left-side shoulder strap posture does however seem to have been prominent, and I have a hunch that this may be one aspect of Conlon's influence on those players.  The newly-discovered Conlon photo (especially if a better image can be obtained) promises to throw more light on that question.

PG

Some players who began playing Irish-American 1-row boxes in the 1940s did use the single left-side shoulder strap.

One example is the late Tom Doherty (R. I. P.) from Mountcharles, Donegal, who arrived in the US in 1948. However, Tom was born in 1913, so from an earlier generation than Jack Conroy, and had played melodeon at home. Tom invested in a valuable accordion from F.H. Walters, a very nice one with features and engraving similar to Jack's except for the "chiclet" keys -- and the fact that Tom's was a 1-row. You can see how he handled the box around the 11 minute mark here:

http://www.folkstreams.net/film,271

Young Tom Gallagher (R.I.P.) in Philadelphia commissioned a similar Walters 1-row box in 1948. I wasn't able to find out which shoulder he used for his single strap, but some other Philadelphia musicians (not all) who were playing Irish-American boxes through the 1940s and later were left-shoulder players (see pics).

PG
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 09:34:35 AM by pgroff »
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pgroff

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Re: A newly-identified photo of P. J. Conlon
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2013, 02:38:43 PM »

Earlier in this thread, triskel and I were discussing the great photo of Joe and Mike Flanagan posted here:

http://www.wnyc.org/story/127548-a-1926-edition-of-soundcheck/

And in particular the interesting Hohner "faux-piano-key" diatonic box that Joe is playing in that photo.



The radio broadcast photo from 1926 is one of the most beautiful from that time in its image quality.  The box is very interesting, one of at least three different ones I've seen in photos of Joe Flanagan.  I agree that Hohner has resemblances to the various versions of the Hohner Polish-Russian models, but in my experience that Flanagan Hohner is unique in its combination of the very ornate grille, the key size and number, the keyboard shape which is so sculptured in 3-d, and the growlbox.  I've seen one other Hohner with almost the same keyboard (but made with one less black key in the inside row), but lacking that type of grille and bass box.  Interestingly, that very well-made Hohner had brass-tongued reeds.  I wonder if the one Joe is playing was a special order or that time's equivalent of a "custom shop" instrument, beefed up with decorative features, enhanced branding for the manufacturer, and possibly better guts too to suit such a high-profile professional player.


Today a friend posted a photo on facebook of the box mentioned above, that recently turned up on ebay -- the "not quite Joe Flanagan model," but the closest to it that I have seen surface in recent years.  I tipped off a friend who is interested in the accordions used in Irish music that this box might be of some interest and he bought it and had it restored.  Thanks to the owner, who gives me permission to post photos of his instruments, and to the photographer who is the wonderful fiddler and piper Willie Kelly.  Note the unusual curved keyboard and the very pro grade strap hanger!  This box has a different grille, different bass set up, and different number of keys than the Joe Flanagan box, but is similar in the curved keyboard, having "white keys" with screws visible (as in many Italian boxes), and in the decal decoration.

PG

Edited to add: now that I see a photo of my friend's example again, I'm seeing that it's the box in the photo that has fewer keys. I remembered it the other way around!  But I think these were built to be very similar keyboards; one has been modified and it's likely to have been the one in  the photo since either an odd black key or a place where a key is missing is at the top of the keyboard in the photo.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 05:40:26 PM by pgroff »
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KLR

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Re: A newly-identified photo of P. J. Conlon
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2013, 07:07:48 PM »

How is the keyboard curved?  I can maybe see a tiny bit of extra length in the middle, but barely enough to be perceptible.  It's not something truly odd like one of these jobs:



Do you know about the CBAs with dummy piano accordion keyboards being built at the same time as the curved models and your diatonic-in-sheep's clothing examples?  The thinking behind these is explained in the book Squeeze This!: A Cultural History of the Accordion in America.  I've seen a few pics in books like "Vintage Accordions" and "The Golden Age of the Accordion."  Pretty much explains itself, just pulling a fast one on the audience; although maybe you know of examples where the piano keyboard wasn't just there for show. 

What key is your friend's box in, and is it a 4th button start?  Also, do the black keys work - is it a 2 row?  Or are they purely ornamental.
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pgroff

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Re: A newly-identified photo of P. J. Conlon
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2013, 07:41:24 PM »

Hi Kevin,

I mean the top of the keyboard housing, that has a sort of wavy curve to its surface -- rather than being stepped.  I think its uncommon, and that these are the only two Hohners I remember seeing like that. 

There's also a very noticeable thumb groove on the keyboard edge.

IIRC the box that recently turned up is in A/D, and is engraved with large letters to indicate that.  Yes, the black keys work.

PG
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triskel

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Re: A newly-identified photo of P. J. Conlon
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2014, 01:20:19 PM »

... in my experience that Flanagan Hohner is unique in its combination of the very ornate grille, the key size and number, the keyboard shape which is so sculptured in 3-d, and the growlbox.  I've seen one other Hohner with almost the same keyboard (but made with one less black key in the inside row), but lacking that type of grille and bass box. ...

Paul,

Your post in the "Ironclad" Hohner thread has reminded me that I've been meaning to post a picture of this Hohner advertising card (in Portuguese) which shows yet another Hohner with that grille:


Edited to reinstate photos lost to Photobucket

KLR

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Re: A newly-identified photo of P. J. Conlon
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2014, 07:30:31 PM »

You fellows might take an interest on a thread I started at the other accordion forum on the phenomenon of the button accordion with fake piano keys - or functional piano keys, it turns out - turns out there was a proper name for these boxes - the "Finto-Piano."  Joe F's wolf-in-sheep's-clothing one (?) row would be classed under this heading, albeit all the examples I've come across are CBAs.  Sort of.  I wonder if Joe's black keys did anything. 
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triskel

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Re: A newly-identified photo of P. J. Conlon
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2014, 10:53:16 PM »

... I wonder if Joe's black keys did anything.

I expect they were in a second key, at least they have been in all the examples that I've seen of this type of box. In fact it looks to me like he's playing on the inside row...

On diatonic accordions, the piano-style black keys on the inside row seem to long-predate the invention of the piano accordion - in fact I've got a French 1.7-row one that dates back to the 1830s!  :o

To save me writing/illustrating it all over again, let me quote a July 2009 reply that I made to Paul on the subject:

Ebay item 220454578764, a diatonic:

http://cgi.ebay.com/A-VINTAGE-LUDWIG-PIANO-ACCORDION-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ220454578764QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MusicalInstr_Keyboard_RL?hash=item33541dea4c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A10|66%3A4|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A200

I have had a couple of these and still have one in storage, not as attractive as the one for sale here.

Hi Paul,

I've had a few of them, and seen plenty more over the years, at antique markets, auctions etc. In Britain they're invariably in the C/C# "English chromatic" system, and the example that I now have formerly belonged to the old West Suffolk melodeon player Cyril Stannard, who played any system as long as it had a C row - well actually, that was all he ever played on them...

The Gebr. Ludwig factory was at Zwota, beside Klingenthal (there's a museum there now - which I visited a few years ago) and they seem to have made this model in the '20s and '30s, decades when the piano accordion was becoming more & more fashionable and some button accordions (both diatonics and CBAs) were built to resemble it.

There's an illustration of a similar one (probably also a Ludwig, but of a more "Italian Model") in How to play the Chromatic Accordeon by Pietro Piandosi (1932), in the First Step series:


Quote
The Ludwig is very cheaply made and mainly of historical/organological interest.

Yes, I don't think they ever made any expensive models, and the reeds are always on long plates in them.

Quote
I have seen a pre-war Paolo Soprani diatonic with similar melody keyboard that was much nicer ...

Was that this G/C one?

Or maybe this one?


But the keys on these are more like the spade-shaped ones on the old-style, stepped-keyboard Italian organetti, with the bar-shaped inside-row ones stained black - like this "Special Accordion with white and black keys" from a 1920's catalogue:


Quote
... and a photo of a 1940's Baldoni version also.

I have a Baldoni, Bartoli & Co. catalogue, from around 1930, that illustrates two models:




The upper version is more ambiguous, but the lower one is described as "False Piano" and "made to resemble a piano accordion," having longer keys and three of the "black" notes in white, so (from a distance) it looks more like the real thing. But both are described as "full tone-simple" (rather than "semitone"), so probably in fourth-apart tuning.

Quote
Somewhat related (although with smaller, less piano-like keys) are the Polish style instruments including some sold by Hohner.

The style is illustrated in a 1931 Hohner catalogue, described as the Polish or Russian model;


... though diatonic accordions with piano-style ebony keys on the inside row go right back to 1830's France;


... and this 1840s example, with a piano-like keyboard is believed to have been made in Vienna;


I guess button accordions have been haunted by the spectre of the piano keyboard from very early on in their history, going back even before there was such a thing as a piano accordion...

Quote
Anyone know who made Joe Flanagan's pseudo-piano-keyboard accordion?


I don't know who made it, but I strongly suspect it was one of the Italian-American firms.

It would remind me somewhat of one I have by the Guerrini Company in San Francisco (the pioneers of piano accordion making in America, in 1909), stamped on the reedblocks "P. PETROMILLI & C. PIATANESI   MAY 25 1921   2269" (don't you wish all makers did that!  :o), only that one (though really a 2-row diatonic) has an amazing 3-row "piano" keyboard - the inner and outer rows acting on the same levers, so it'd play C/F/C (in high pitch), though if I restored it I'd be tempted to make it C#/D/C# (at A=440):


Whilst an instrument with a similar-looking treble keyboard, but Stradella bass, appears in an early 1900's catalogue from the Tyrolean maker Fidel Socin - only the alignment of the keys is different and it's a true 3-row. The description says that the white keys are for the naturals, and the black ones are for semitones, so I'd suspect it's in the continental G/C/B tuning (what the French would call a "système mixte").


I suspect the Guerrini Company in San Francisco, who were pioneering makers of piano accordions, might also have been the ones who introduced those "Finto-Piano" accordions.

KLR

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Re: A newly-identified photo of P. J. Conlon
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2014, 05:37:23 AM »

Holy moley, Stephen, thanks for all that.  Those little faux keyboards are great, it's such a charming bit of design. 

There are pictures of both finto-piano pioneer Pietro Frosini and PA king Guido Diero among artists at the Guerinni booth at the 1915 World's Fair in San Francisco, so I'd reckon that both had instruments built by that company.  In later years Frosini had boxes built by Excelsior. 



Found at this Swedish Frosini tribute site.  Apparently he's the bee's knees over there.  Joe F's box has similar cabinetry to other Guerinni boxes, the trademark harp shape.  Bagpiper/Everything Else Imaginable Sean Folsom has a video on YouTube playing an old Guerinni, perhaps there's a clue there in the design. 
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triskel

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Re: A newly-identified photo of P. J. Conlon
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2014, 07:04:54 PM »

... the top of the keyboard housing ... has a sort of wavy curve to its surface -- rather than being stepped.  I think its uncommon, and that these are the only two Hohners I remember seeing like that. 

There's a Globe like that on eBay now.

pgroff

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Re: A newly-identified photo of P. J. Conlon
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2014, 09:57:01 PM »

Thanks triskel!  That Globe is a strange old thing.  I agree, the keyboard is somewhat similar to the Flanagan box and the other similar Hohner.

Nice grille too.  The whole thing reminds me of Koch accordions, but has some differences from every other one I can remember.

PG
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