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Author Topic: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?  (Read 4299 times)

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Art Vandelay

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What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
« on: September 09, 2013, 04:41:38 AM »

Ever since my interested in accordions was originally sparked, I almost immediately knew that I wanted a melodeon. Having chosen the melodeon, I feel as though it would be weird to purchase a piano accordion.

However, my local music shop recently came into a Hohner Student II N, and they are asking $260 for it, with straps and hard case. All the buttons work, everything seems okay to me. The grill is hurting, but it's about the sound right? I just feel, compelled to purchase it, but I'm worried it will hinder my progress with the melodeon.

What do you guys think?
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2013, 06:54:26 AM »

A melodeon and a piano accordion (PA) are completely different instruments. We tend to poke gentle fun at PAs here; it is a melodeon forum after all. But PAs are recognised throughout the world as highly versatile and serious instruments for all genres of music - there are very many fine players and accordion ensembles and orchestras have huge followings.

The main difference between the melodeon and the PA (apart from the piano keyboard) is that the PA plays the same note on both push and pull, so it tends to lend itself to long flowing phrases much more readily, although it doesn't have to be played like that. PA players often use large, full-size instruments with 120 bass buttons on the LH side which makes them much heavier and more expensive than most melodeons.

There is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't try a PA if you have the opportunity. The playing technique is quite different from a melodeon so you are unlikely to get confused. And if you find that you take to it that's great. You will have achieved something which you would otherwise not have done. So I say go for it!
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Daddy Long Les

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Re: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2013, 07:17:08 AM »

I recently took up the Chromatic Button Accordion after having played the melodeon for a couple of years.  This is essentially the same as a PA  but with buttons layed out in a zig zag chromatic pattern instead of a piano keyboard on the treble side.

I practise on the two instruments every day with no confusion at all (as Steve suggests).  If you're anything like me you may struggle with the Stradella bass which feels a bit fiddly after those lovely chunky melodeon basses.  Already I can play some tunes fairly fluently that I would have struggled to cope with on the melodeon.  It's great!  Melodeon is still my squeezebox of choice but I am finding the CBA very absorbing and of course if I can master that bass side I can borrow my wife's piano accordion!!

I say, give it a try at that price.

All the best

Les
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Etienne

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Re: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2013, 07:50:57 AM »

I like to play with PA players, they can do fancy chords and basslines and all I have to do is playing the music on the right hand. Use them as an automatic harmoniser, very relaxing >:E
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BJG

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Re: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2013, 08:21:10 AM »

I initially tried piano accordion, having some basic keyboard skills, but find the melodeon suits me much better. If you're tempted though, go for it. I buy instruments at any opportunity (currently awaiting an Irish bouzouki) and persevere with the ones that seem to come more naturally. (Hoping the bouzouki works out better than the five-string banjo; that was a pig.)
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 08:22:46 AM by BJG »
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Anahata

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Re: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2013, 09:43:44 AM »

As Les suggests, it won't hinder your progress with the melodeon in the sense that you'll start playing the melodeon all wrong: they are different instruments and you learn to play them separately. The only problem is that if practice time is limited you have to choose one at a time..

I actually started on piano accordion, as did several other melodeon players I know of.
The problem is often not with the instrument, but with the player: piano accordionists can get into terrible habits like holding bass buttons and chords down all the way though a phrase, and never letting their RH lose contact with the keyboard (or even stop holding at least one key down) so there is never a gap between the notes. Good players learn not to do those things and can get as crisp and bouncy a style as a melodeon for dance music, but it has to be learned much more consciously.

Becky Price, one of the best English folk piano accordion players, started off with a classical PA training (much of which went out of the window later) and says she learned by listening to lots of melodeon players, not to any other PA players.

If you don't already have piano keyboard skills, I suspect that a chromatic button accordion is a better option if you want to start playing an instrument of that sort (i.e. unisonoric, fully chromatic, stradella bass).

(edit: typo)
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 10:36:55 AM by Anahata »
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george garside

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Re: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2013, 10:33:39 AM »

I think the key to learning/playing different instruments is to keep learning/playing them with equal enthusiasm and time share, otherwise one or t'other gets neglected  and lives in a cupboard!.  (I have several tin whistles bought at various festivals with the intention of learning etc - I can play? the odd tune but am really crap because for some reason they very rarely come out of the cupboard!)

same seems to work for most combinations of boxes and this includes playing 4th aprt and semitone boxes reasonably well.  Treat them as different instruments and give them eqal priority.

george
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Chris Ryall

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Re: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2013, 11:15:18 AM »

I use my piano for guests, daughters, and planning chord runs or sorting out complex other people's; As a rarity just now, I did that all on melodeon for "Siel de Paris", it'll be good for me! Jeez, that major section is a lot of work for just 4 lines of song!

But on the whole, no, piano keyboard skills don't transfer. I'd go CBA if I were 20 years younger, starting afresh. CBA can be made lighter and smaller, and have another edge over PA: if you can play eg C major … you can play the other 11 ;) but it's still no way a melodeon.

Agree totally about the fiddly left end stradela :-\ (and its mass impeding rhythmic bellows work), and Becky's vaulting wonderful mastery of all these issues :|glug
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Art Vandelay

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Re: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2013, 02:18:31 AM »

Well right now I'm trying to decide between purchasing a Zoom H4N audio recorder, or the PA. Both are similarly priced.

I'm now leaning away from the PA, because as many of you pointed out, if I was ever going to go with unisonoric, stradella bass, I might be interested in CBA, and I am.

One of the main reasons I went with melodeon, is because I think an accordion should have buttons, not keys. PAs are just so popular in the accordion world, and I like to be different. Mind you I don't go and get different things just to be different, but after reading your posts I think I'd be better off with an instrument in a different category.

I want to get a second instrument to play with after I've had enough melodeon playing for a day. I don't know if it's just me, but playing my melodeon without the necessary skills to play it like the masters on Youtube, it's a lot less... fullfilling.

I still enjoy playing my simple hyhms and melodies, I just think I'll enjoy it a whole lot more when I can play some Yann Teirsen or or the like.

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Art Vandelay

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Re: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2013, 02:34:55 AM »

Come to think of it, any of you guys have experience with the melodica? That could be a good complimentary instrument. Relatively cheap, portable, and it's a reed instrument.
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pikey

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Re: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2013, 07:19:58 AM »

Chris Parkinson excels at both PA and melodeon. Search for him on YouTube. He started on PA, but then took up melodeon as well. I'll ask him why if I remember ! (:)
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2013, 08:08:00 AM »

One of the main reasons I went with melodeon, is because I think an accordion should have buttons, not keys. PAs are just so popular in the accordion world, and I like to be different. Mind you I don't go and get different things just to be different, but after reading your posts I think I'd be better off with an instrument in a different category.
Perhaps you should consider a duet concertina. Not many people play those.

Or a bass saxophone.
 8)
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Chris Ryall

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Re: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2013, 09:02:10 AM »

I like to travel, and always (nearly) take a melodeon along. My job is busy and it offers practice time, but also the local music club can be a rapid way to meet people in a different culture.

I've taken a Lilly to Switzerland in motor bike luggage, and my larger boxes all over in plane hand baggage; I pick GC or DG depending on the keys of my destination. Steve's concertina could do this, but I think no freebooting melodeonista would lug a PA around, nor would his airlines oblige, unless he obliged them with the price of a first class ticket!

I've seen CBAs that are small enough for hand baggage, though with 2 reeds needed per scale note they also tend to be too heavy. Melodeon for me!  :|glug

Piano :o don't ask!
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AirTime

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Re: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2013, 05:04:20 PM »

I started, briefly, on a PA, before realizing that the music I wanted to play, & the sound I was after, was more suited to the melodeon. PA's make sense if you're already a keyboard player, but the ergonomics of the PA are terrible (IMO). But yes - used PA's can be picked up very cheap in the US.
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EastAnglianTed

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Re: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2013, 05:15:40 PM »

    Re: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
    I am not a big fan. I like the melodeon for its limitations, PA's tend to have less limits and (IMO) occasionally (player dependent) obviously less rhythm. 2 different instruments for 2 different purposes though.  >:E

    Edited so I don't get torn to shreds  (:)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 05:19:30 PM by EastAnglianTed »
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Steve C.

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Re: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2013, 05:25:54 PM »

PA's don't even make good boat anchors.

When you get (temporarily) tired of melodeon playing, well, that's what banjo's were invented for.

Or ukulele's.

What is also fun to have, and are a bit out of favor at the moment in the States, are English-style concertinas.  Some good prices at the moment for nice instruments.

Also, Lee Oskar harmonicas, in a key you don't usually play, like the harmonic minors.  Can't go wrong for $20.
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Re: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2013, 09:44:46 AM »


When you get (temporarily) tired of melodeon playing, well, that's what banjo's were invented for.


How true, though surprisingly few banjo endorsements appear on Melnet.
Steve
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Re: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2013, 08:09:44 AM »

I have an ancient Gallanti PA (1930s) 120 bass. My Dad used it to entertain his fellow conscripts in 1950s England. I also have all his music. So; he played a lot of tango tunes and these sound great on a PA. This PA is what got me into free reed instruments. I also play piano (to around grade 6) but I found the keyboard on a PA hell really, as I am not a particularly accurate player and need to see the keys. Also as a reader of music a lot is going on in piano (and so PA) music; you have to find the right keys for all those RH chords. The bit of the PA I really liked was the LH bass, which is nice and intuitive ( it needs to be...you can't see it when you are playing). The beauty of PAs and button boxes is that the LH gives you lots for free (I mean without too much effort), and I find it easier to play than a piano - but that is just me...
The diatonic melodeon on the other hand is (IMO) a far easier instrument to play folk/dance tunes on; you can get away with an awful lot as long as you have the bellows going in the right direction and as long as you are playing something fore square and that doesn't have too many accidentals and or changes of key. On a PA, on the other hand, you have to pick out your scale. If you play a lot of stuff in D or G, then on a PA the rest of the RH keys don't get used very often and are a nuisance if you hit them by accident.
The melodeon also has other advantages: it is generally far lighter than a PA (a 120 bass PA is v heavy and not really portable), it is smaller and it can be played with 'bounce' because you have to work the bellows to get the push pull notes (which is one thing that is more complicated than the PA), and the bass button layout is v simple compared to a PA.
The down side to a melodeon is of course if (like me) you go to sessions with singers and guitarists and want to accompany them in their randomly selected keys, you often can't with a melodeon, and a PA would be better (or a CBA).
Also as someone else ( Anahata? ) pointed out, you only have so much time to practice, and trying to improve on one instrument means you have less time for others. I keep wondering about a CBA but for this reason (dilution of practice time) I haven't bothered yet. A three row melodeon is quite a good compromise, because the fingering is the same up and down a row and you can do quite a lot across the rows (and you are putting in time to learn how to do this on one instrument)  and carrying 2 3 row boxes (ADG and GCF) is actually less work than lugging a PA, which is like a ship's anchor.
The choice of PA depends on a lot of things but I would suggest you need a lot more time to get proficient on a PA than a melodeon, and it helps if you can read music and already play the piano, OR you are young and have all the time in the world to learn it.
You can get pretty good on a melodeon without any of the above (IMO).
Having said all of the above, the diatonic box can be frustrating when because of its limitations, so it's 'horses for courses' really.

Art Vandelay

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Re: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2013, 11:40:25 PM »

Thanks RogerThomas. I do think my money would be better spent by saving it for a new ADG box. That said, I'm starting to like my panther more. I found a user on youtube playing a Panther and he did a valse triste video, and some kind of polka. It was good to see videos of someone using both sides of a Panther.

There are so many videos of people playing with only the RH side of the Panther. When I see them, it makes me irate. They can make such great music with the RH, but the fullness of the LH side never comes in. Very disappointing.

I don't want to any of the users on this forum who play that type of music. I respect cultural preferences. I just don't like that type of music.

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ceemonster

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Re: What do the melodeon players think of pianos?
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2013, 08:02:09 AM »

you can certainly play a unisonoric accordion of some sort (PA or CBA) as well as a bisonoric melodeon.  i play anglo (bisonoric) concertina and b/c accordion, and am currently in Year Three of CBA.  I played PA for a while prior to either bisonoric instrument due to having had some piano as a kid, but hated the ergonomics of PA and had always wanted to learn CBA and finally succombed after a lot of time on melodeon and concertina. i've taken to cba like a duck to water and am badly neglecting the bisonorics for it, but still play anglo concertina in seshes. you can absolutely play both, but unless you have lost interest in melodeon and don't mean to play it anymore, the one thing i'd  advise is, getting to a very good level of command on the one before starting the next.  it's not too much of a mouthful to be doing the initial fundamental learning curve on one and continuing to practice and gain fluency on another you already play competently.  but grappling with the fundamentals on two at once is inadvisable IMHO.
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