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Author Topic: legato  (Read 4725 times)

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Peter G

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legato
« on: September 12, 2013, 07:27:40 PM »

I have come across this term 'legato' on a couple of posts recently
What does it mean? It seems to be considered sinful  >:E by some members - so is it fun?  :||: should I avoid it at my age? Am I doing it already I wonder?
PeterG
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Stiamh

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Re: legato
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2013, 07:31:58 PM »

It means "linked" or "tied". It's the musical equivalent of joined-up handwriting. If you prefer to print at all times, go right ahead.  ;)

Chris Ryall

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Re: legato
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2013, 07:37:10 PM »

… as opposed to stacato: a smooth rather than "punctuated" playing style. It has more specific meaning on eg guitar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legato

Nothing is wrong, but eg the Morris Ring used to advise on their weekend courses that legato style was usually inappropriate for Cotswald, (and I'd concur)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 07:40:17 PM by Chris Ryall »
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: legato
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2013, 07:38:14 PM »

In effect it means 'smoothly'. In written music it is indicated by a slur sign (a long curved symbol) over the notes to be so played. On a wind instrument you would achieve this by only tonguing the first note of the legato phrase and blowing through the rest. On a bowed sting instrument you would play all the slurred notes in one single movement of the bow.

On a melodeon, you best achieve the effect by playing the phrase with as few bellows direction changes as possible, so usually this involves a fair amount of cross-rowing.

The opposite of legato is 'staccato', which means detached, short-duration notes with gaps between them.

Legato notes can be thought of as going 'laa-laa-laa-laa-laaaa' and staccato notes go 'dit.. dit.. dit.. dit.. dit.'

Hope this helps.
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Steve
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george garside

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Re: legato
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2013, 07:39:25 PM »

running the notes into each other as opposed to leaving a gap between them


george
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tiny

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Re: legato
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2013, 07:40:18 PM »

I would say smooth.
Just seen this has been answered above  (:)

and much better explained
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lizzy in Hoppicking Herefordshire

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Chris Ryall

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Re: legato
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2013, 07:41:35 PM »

We appear to have achieved 'legato' posts on this  ;D
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Stiamh

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Re: legato
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2013, 07:57:53 PM »

On a bowed sting instrument you would play all the slurred notes in one single movement of the bow.

Can't agree there Steve. You can play a violin legato without slurring or tying notes together in the same bow stroke. Just as you can play a flurry of staccato notes without changing bow direction.

And I would say that, by analogy, you can play a passage on the melodeon legato even if you have to change bellows direction, and you can play staccato without changing bellows direction.

BTW all, when I said that legato meant "tied" or "linked", I meant the Italian word. Not the English one with a diphthong at the end.  ;)

Chris Ryall

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Re: legato
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2013, 08:12:34 PM »

I very carefully avoided the bellows aspect, which is relevant but doesn't define. Actually like most of these things, it's mostly in the mind of the player. The rest is "technique"

To be fair to Steve, he does say "best way to achieve"?
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: legato
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2013, 01:41:51 AM »


Can't agree there Steve. You can play a violin legato without slurring or tying notes together in the same bow stroke. Just as you can play a flurry of staccato notes without changing bow direction.

So as not to confuse the OP and depart from the original question, let's not get into the realms of pedantry here, please. I'm speaking in general terms about the overall effect a given technique will produce. I don't think this particular thread is the place to discuss the finer points of bowing technique or woodwind tonguing.
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Steve
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Stiamh

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Re: legato
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2013, 10:56:26 AM »


Can't agree there Steve. You can play a violin legato without slurring or tying notes together in the same bow stroke. Just as you can play a flurry of staccato notes without changing bow direction.

So as not to confuse the OP and depart from the original question, let's not get into the realms of pedantry here, please. I'm speaking in general terms about the overall effect a given technique will produce. I don't think this particular thread is the place to discuss the finer points of bowing technique or woodwind tonguing.

Let's not make accusations of pedantry either - please.

I said nothing about tonguing, and you were the one who brought in violin bowing. What you said about bowing was incorrect and, in my view, misleading in the context of melodeon playing because it implies that (if playing legato on the fiddle only means slurring - which it doesn't) you cannot truly play legato on the box if bellows changes are involved. That was why I responded.

Edited to add: La douche porte conseil. I think the reason we are disagreeing here is that Steve_FR is equating legato playing with a slur sign. Yes a slur sign indicates legato playing, but legato playing is not confined to slur signs. If I had thought more about his post before chiming in, I could have picked that up. I think bringing written music in was unnecessarily confusing, really.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 11:30:49 AM by Steve Jones »
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Theo

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Re: legato
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2013, 11:34:45 AM »

So to summarise: legato is smooth playing with notes joined up, staccato is where the notes are separated.

It seems to be considered sinful  >:E by some members - so is it fun?  :||: should I avoid it at my age?


No it's not sinful. You should aim to be able to play legato or staccato and to choose when to use each.   You can combine them in the same tune to add interest and expression to your music.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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tiny

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Re: legato
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2013, 07:11:20 PM »

I understand the legato discussion is being brought to a conclusion but what does

La douche porte conseil  mean? for goodness sake  ............google it and a shower door comes up. ........maybe my education is lacking actually it must be .

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lizzy in Hoppicking Herefordshire

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Stiamh

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Re: legato
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2013, 07:23:39 PM »

There is an adage, La nuit porte conseil. Google could help you with that, but to save you the trouble, it means "night brings counsel", which is a little more specific than the idea of "sleep on it". In this case revelation came, as it often does, in the shower.  :|glug

boisterous budgie

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Re: legato
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2013, 08:15:45 PM »

If you ever ever have the chance to be taught by Aurélien Claranbaux, grab the opportunity with both hands!!!  He is a truly excellent teacher! He talks about "detachement" in a way that changes the way you see your squeezebox for ever! Even within legato or staccato and the vast world in between - he speaks of the articulation: feeling the resistance of the spring, rather than pushing the button and treating the beginning of the note and the end of the note with equal care the length of the note and the length of the silence between notes and the stopping of notes not through your fingers but with your left arm. I do him no justice with this little summary but, my gosh, I have enough to think about for the rest of my life.
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tiny

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Re: legato
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2013, 09:07:21 PM »

There is an adage, La nuit porte conseil. Google could help you with that, but to save you the trouble, it means "night brings counsel", which is a little more specific than the idea of "sleep on it". In this case revelation came, as it often does, in the shower.


Ah I see .......obscure and personal
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lizzy in Hoppicking Herefordshire

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Peter G

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Re: legato
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2013, 09:18:53 PM »

OK Thanks everyone. I reckon I've got the gist of the word, though talk of tonguing and bowing did have me a bit worried :|bl I've read before opinions about cross-rowing and playing 'along the row' and I now understand they are just techniques to use when you feel appropriate, though as an 'improving' Morris player I can see legato wouldn't be so suitable for Morris dancers as you would lose some of the rhythmic 'punch'. I can also see that it is easier to achieve 'smoothness' by cross-rowing; what I guess is only possible when playing whole phrases on the same bellows direction is actually overlapping the notes. It seems to be popular with accordion players, but again doesn't seem right for Morris (though I have heard it done). Is there a specific musical term for this?
As a footnote: What I love about this forum is the space which allows (sometimes several) different opinions to be expressed without anyone falling out. I listened in to concertina .net for a little while once, and was actually dismayed, nay appalled, at how much anger was floating about.
A final word: I'm on the side of the pedants!
Thanks people.
PeterG
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george garside

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Re: legato
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2013, 09:39:13 PM »

the 'smoothness' can be had 'on the row'   once delicate bellows control  is mastered

george
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Ebor_fiddler

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Re: legato
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2013, 09:58:56 PM »

For me, perfection comes slowly.  (:)  :||:
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Re: legato
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2013, 10:14:35 PM »

OK Thanks everyone.
I bet you're glad you asked.
M
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