Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: singing with the melodeon  (Read 5830 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

squeezy

  • Quick starter (now lagging behind)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1232
  • Hohner Cornelia (mixte D/G/o&s)
    • www.johnspiers.co.uk
Re: singing with the melodeon
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2013, 10:55:47 AM »

OK I'll stop surmising things about brain-science if you agree to stop telling people on this forum that the way you think people should learn the melodeon is the "right" way.
Logged
Squeezy

Sometimes wrong, sometimes right ... but always certain!

Cooper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 672
  • Gaillrd G/C/#,Casta Allain8 GC,Lofft CF, giord ad
    • Cooper's homepage
Re: singing with the melodeon
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2013, 11:28:09 AM »

  @Cooper: example of "wrong" bass use!
:-)
W
Logged
Please correct my English, it's been a while, and i like to learn.
And don't be so polite! I know i must be typing tons of stuff that a native speaker would say differently...please enlighten me.

www.wouterkuyper.nl
www.lirio.nl
www.trekzakacademie.nl

rileycat

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 266
Re: singing with the melodeon
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2013, 01:06:57 PM »

As well as all the above, just listen to other singer/players.  Pete Coe and Brian Peters, for starters, do quite a bit of singing with the melodeon and whilst John Kirkpatrick can be somewhat overwhelming with his BCC# 48bass button box, he has done a fair bit on both pokerwork and single row. You don't need to copy them, but you can take their approach in by the osmosis of repeated listening (and enjoyment, of course) and this might be an encouragement for your efforts.  Don't be afraid of forging your own style and keep up your playing.  Also, try 'la,la,la-ing' to a song tune first, it may help to relax the natural tendency many of us have to 'breathe' with our bellows movements and give you a way into eventually singing the words.
Logged

boxcall

  • You got to love it!!!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1342
  • Do what you love, love what you do.
Re: singing with the melodeon
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2013, 04:07:56 PM »

Listen to Bob Roberts. He was a Master at this.  :|glug
Thanks for mentioning , great stuff! I love the humor in the sea shanties.
who doesn't like a song with a little ball of yarn in it?
 
I should also say I'll be studying the chord charts to see what I can do on a one row , but if any one wants to demonstrate?
seems like a lot of partial chords.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 04:14:32 PM by boxcall »
Logged
Hohner 1040 C, Beltuna one row four stop D, O'Byrne Dewitt/ Baldoni bros. D/C#, Paolo soprani "pepperpot" one row D

oggiesnr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 984
  • Dino BPII, Alfred Arnold Bandoneon, Loffet G/C
Re: singing with the melodeon
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2013, 10:14:02 PM »

For me the starting point is the tune, both vocally and on the box.  Once I've got that secure I can look at the left hand for chords and then adjust the right hand by cross rowing as needed.  At this point I can start moving away from the melody on the right hand, maybe play a harmony or a drone (also available in the left hand) or a double stop, whatever.

However, singing across a part is a particular skill which takes a long time to  be comfortable (and in tune) with and I see nothing wrong with reinforcing the words with the tune and harmonies (double stops etc) on the box. If you listen to JK playing with Leon Rosselson he plays a hell of a lot of the tune amongst his other notes.

Steve
Logged

gmatkin

  • Gavin Atkin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 647
    • Julieandhersqueeze.com
Re: singing with the melodeon
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2013, 01:29:13 PM »

I'm chipping in on this a bit late, but I wouldn't be dogmatic about playing or not playing the tune. I would say that it often works well to play relatively restrained chords (and may be a little more) on a verse but bring in the tune big time on the chorus. Try this http://youtu.be/4ku1bMtm7Bg, this http://youtu.be/6rh3skYpbYc or this even more extreme example where I've played on the left hand only http://youtu.be/4t9kAi8xZ90.

This particular idea struck me one day as I was watching a lovely old video of Sean O' Se singing with Ceoltóirí Chualann, led I think by Seán Ó Riada. There's no melodeon here, but the arrangement caught my imagination: http://youtu.be/eEi_bqIADZQ

Your mileage may differ widely of course, and a lot depends on what the singer wants - some are happy with chords only, and some want a little tune in an accompaniment - some find it gives them something to play with, others that it provides useful hand-holds...

Gavin
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 01:38:55 PM by gmatkin »
Logged

gmatkin

  • Gavin Atkin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 647
    • Julieandhersqueeze.com
Re: singing with the melodeon
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2013, 01:32:37 PM »


On the other hand, I quite often play something very like the tune - it seems to work as long as it's simple, and has enough in it that is different to the tune. This isn't me accompanying myself, but to my mind the technique seems to work: http://youtu.be/jB8SI57AHoQ

Gavin

Chris Ryall

  • "doc 3-row"
  • French Interpreter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8132
  • Wirral UK
    • Chris Ryall
Re: singing with the melodeon
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2013, 02:38:05 PM »

I should also say I'll be studying the chord charts to see what I can do on a one row , but if any one wants to demonstrate?

Oh!  Looks like we've all ('cept Anahata) failed to pick up the 1-row aspect. That's more of a challenge, and personally I wouldn't be up to it (brain "wiring" might be up to improvising the odd forgotten word but I'd breath with the bellows)! Good luck, and I couldn't generally improve on what Anahata says.

Quote
seems like a lot of partial chords.

..  not entirely, but you are much closer to the "three chord trick" and I suspect you might end up playing more melody than 2-row context posts above (including mine) envisage. A lot of the 'leading note' aspects of chording on melodeon stem from a finger on the "other" row. However a wadge of pull buttons still gives you a 'dominant' chord sound, the 'meat' of the A7 chord is C#,G  these are both right way, pull against your A bass. And you might find those two as a di-chord work best.  I'd also experiment with D+A =D5 as home chord, on the "less is more" principle Theo offered.

btw Just listened again to check you were in D, it's very nicely sung, you shouldn't be in any way disheartened  (:)
Logged
  _       _    _      _ 

boxcall

  • You got to love it!!!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1342
  • Do what you love, love what you do.
Re: singing with the melodeon
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2013, 08:36:12 PM »

 


and I couldn't generally improve on what Anahata says.


I find this to be true very often!


Thanks again to all for the input!
 
Logged
Hohner 1040 C, Beltuna one row four stop D, O'Byrne Dewitt/ Baldoni bros. D/C#, Paolo soprani "pepperpot" one row D

RogerT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1680
  • can't walk past a box w'out picking it up...
    • Jolly Roger Accordions
Re: singing with the melodeon
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2013, 11:54:00 PM »

One thing I noticed when singing and playing ( not something I do very often) is that it helps to know the lyrics, or better, the song inside out. If I have to think ahead to the next line and remember the melody etc. I still have to find some capacity to play the melodeon. If I am v lazy and try to read the lyrics then things get v difficult. I used to play guitar and sing, and it's much easier. For what it's worth it's also quite tricky to sing while playing the piano. Seems to me you need to be able to play chords/ thirds/harmony without thinking about it, and that surely is just hours of practice, like those tunes you know so well and can play while somebody bangs a door or talks in a loud voice.

Marje

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 483
Re: singing with the melodeon
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2013, 08:59:49 PM »

I can't speak while playing melodeon, although I can listen, and respond with head or eye movements. But I can sing and play without the same interference. I generally start on a new song  by playing the tune and basses while I sing, and then cut back so that I'm not tracking all of the melody, but will keep the basses and perhaps some sort of counter-melody or infill sections. And yes, I have to know the words really well before attempting this, I couldn't do it while using notes or prompts.

And if I'm learning a song - perhaps a chorus - while someone else is performing it, I find I have to get the tune sorted out in my head first, perhaps by humming along, and then add the words next time through. It feels to me as if different parts of my brain are involved for these operations, and I can't get them both to work together at first, although, overall, I do learn new songs and tunes quite quickly. Maybe there is some neurological explanation for all this, or then again we may all have different ways of doing these things?
Logged
Marje

Chris Ryall

  • "doc 3-row"
  • French Interpreter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8132
  • Wirral UK
    • Chris Ryall
Re: singing with the melodeon
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2013, 09:45:52 PM »

I am sure there is a neurological explanation, but I don't believe it is known. I'm mostly like you in my experience, others differ, some can even play and hold a conversation!

  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2996848/#!po=7.50000

The googled paper is mostly about using song as therapy but I thought the preamble useful, much general stuff, and it is also up to date. It refers to music/song involving all the brain other than visual cortex (at the back), ie there is no "singing" area, unlike speech articulation or movement. Aural feedback is also important.

Seems we all differ and the "pavement of chords, sing across it" is therefore what works for me. Worth a try for a new singer (ideally with 2(+) rows)! No guarantees :-\ the art of the possible?

[edit] Remembered this little video which has been going round FB over the past month. It isn't melodeon, but is a good example of what can be achieved in the way of hand/arm/voice coordination "with practice" ;)

One thing we might notice (also a tip I once had from Nic Jones) is that the singing is done to relatively straightforward stuff; when the really flash "accompaniment" happens, they are silent …
« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 09:50:22 AM by Chris Ryall »
Logged
  _       _    _      _ 

Nick Collis Bird

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3702
  • Been squeezing melodeons for over 48 years (badly)
Re: singing with the melodeon
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2013, 09:46:49 AM »

Talk & play very much on my too hard list!

There has to be a structure there or my brain goes into overload

I can't do that either.
I remember being at a barn dance with Bob Cann, he was playing Uncles Jig and all the time calling and sorting out a hopeless couple at the back of the room and not missing one single note !
How?
Logged
Has anyone heard of the song. “ Broken Alarm-clock Blues” ? It starts   “I woke up this Afternoon”

Chris Ryall

  • "doc 3-row"
  • French Interpreter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8132
  • Wirral UK
    • Chris Ryall
Re: singing with the melodeon
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2013, 09:54:16 AM »

nic, I suspect calling and playing is a similar if more complex/ higher level thing as singing, indeed Kentucky Running Set calling and some other traditions are sing called. While they are different, they share structure and (for me) this helps the ol' brain. Not that I could do this myself.

Playing a ceilidh tune and doing marriage guidance at the same time :o a miracle!
Logged
  _       _    _      _ 

Anahata

  • This mind intentionally left blank
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5054
  • Oakwood D/G, C/F Club, 1-rows in C,D,G
    • Treewind Music
Re: singing with the melodeon
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2013, 12:15:30 PM »

I once called a dance while leading a band from the melodeon.
Fortunately, at the time nobody had ever told me it was impossible.
I doubt that I did it very well,  and I don't think I could do it now...

I've heard that about Bob Cann before, also that he'd turn up at a session, start playing a tune, then turn to the person sitting next him and start up a conversation about the terrible traffic on Barnstaple bypass that afternoon, or whatever.
Logged
I'm a melodeon player. What's your excuse?
Music recording and web hosting: www.treewind.co.uk
Mary Humphreys and Anahata: www.maryanahata.co.uk
Ceilidh bands: www.fourhandband.co.uk www.barleycoteband.co.uk

Nick Collis Bird

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3702
  • Been squeezing melodeons for over 48 years (badly)
Re: singing with the melodeon
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2013, 01:52:52 PM »



I've heard that about Bob Cann before, also that he'd turn up at a session, start playing a tune, then turn to the person sitting next him and start up a conversation about the terrible traffic on Barnstaple bypass that afternoon, or whatever.

Absolutely true !  :D
Logged
Has anyone heard of the song. “ Broken Alarm-clock Blues” ? It starts   “I woke up this Afternoon”

boxcall

  • You got to love it!!!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1342
  • Do what you love, love what you do.
Re: singing with the melodeon
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2013, 05:24:35 PM »



I've heard that about Bob Cann before, also that he'd turn up at a session, start playing a tune, then turn to the person sitting next him and start up a conversation about the terrible traffic on Barnstaple bypass that afternoon, or whatever.

Absolutely true !  :D

That's amazing!
My wife's family 11 of them half of which play music , folk and bluegrass but now learning more Irish and morris tunes that I'm playing. All by ear and their ability to work out some kind of chord progression and find the changes and rhythm pattern amazes me too.
And I should add they have no problem conversing while playing. I'm the only silent one but I must say I've had a break though and utter my first sentence while playing the other day. It was just a simple question and I did it (while playing a tune I know well) with out even thinking about it but after realizing what I had just done , so were the words.
Logged
Hohner 1040 C, Beltuna one row four stop D, O'Byrne Dewitt/ Baldoni bros. D/C#, Paolo soprani "pepperpot" one row D

Chris Ryall

  • "doc 3-row"
  • French Interpreter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8132
  • Wirral UK
    • Chris Ryall
Re: singing with the melodeon
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2014, 10:05:17 AM »

Here are two nice song accompaniments by Flemish enfant terrible, Hartwin Dhoore.

    https://soundcloud.com/hartwin-dhoore

Anahata might care to say whether those maj7 chords sound OK ;) (fine by me). The singer, not sure. It came from dutch speaking sources, but sounds more like ?Finnish.
Logged
  _       _    _      _ 

Mcgrooger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 566
  • Northern Roots
Re: singing with the melodeon
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2014, 03:01:44 PM »

I've sung a lot over the years accompanying myself on guitar but, so far, I've only managed to perform two songs accompanying myself on melodeon. And I've only commited one of those to YouTube.  Compared to singer/guitarists there are relatively few singer/melodeon(ists?!).  For me the latter is much, much harder.  My advice is if you can do it at all, keep doing it, ignore any advice as to playing the tune/RH chords/LH or whatever and see how your individual style develops. Once it comes naturally, then might be the time to think about different approaches.  When you consider the myriad approaches to voice+guitar it seems reductive to suggest that there are any rights and wrongs to singing and playing squeezebox at the same time. Good effort. (:)
Logged

Chris Ryall

  • "doc 3-row"
  • French Interpreter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8132
  • Wirral UK
    • Chris Ryall
Re: singing with the melodeon
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2014, 06:15:31 PM »

except "play anything except the tune" is important?
Logged
  _       _    _      _ 
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal