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[BJG]

This isn't directly melodeon-related; this is just somewhere to vent. The violinist in our ceilidh band is driving us nuts because she often loses track of where she is and repeats or jumps to the wrong section. This is very disruptive when people are trying to dance. I'm wondering whether to rig up something with an iPad or similar that highlights the current section, but it would be a lot easier if she could learn to keep her place. Has anyone else encountered this problem or have any suggestions on tactfully addressing the issue? 

[Rob2Hook]

I have times when I'm prone to doing this, although not usually during a ceilidh (thank goodness).  For me it's a symptom of having other things on my mind and less interest than usual in the dancing, so I wander off into my own world.  The only way I can shake myself out of it is to concentrate not on my playing but on the dance as the tune matches the measures and choruses - even listening to the caller can guide you as to where you are, after all it works for novice dancers.  I know for a fact that I play at my best when I'm really into the dance and cannot understand the number of players who stare at the ceiling rather than the footfall of the dancers.

Rob.

[BJG]

I know for a fact that I play at my best when I'm really into the dance and cannot understand the number of players who stare at the ceiling rather than the footfall of the dancers.

(I'm sure you're right about that - I was cursing myself just the other evening for relying on the score instead of learning everything so I could watch the dancers instead of the dots...)

[Jules0654]

I too sometimes lose concentration for long enough to have forgotten how many A's or B's I've played when out with the side. Luckily our main musician just turns and smiles at me when he hears - a prompt for me to stop daydreaming!!

[BJG]

Luckily our main musician just turns and smiles at me when he hears - a prompt for me to stop daydreaming!!

Really? It's more of a filthy scowl here in Norfolk...

[Chris Ryall]

She needs to learn discipline, but we have nearly all done it! More or less got that sorted, but I have real problems when improvising over the longer ii/V/i riffs. They can be a bit featureless in terms of cadence (that's the idea) and I can be out by up to a bar   But counting A/Bs when playing for money … no excuses really?

Here's Loïc Etienne keeping his band in order! 

[george garside]

listening to the leader ( I presume the aforementioned fiddler is not the leader) is crucial  so that if the leader makes a mistake the band make it with him/her.  That should be operating as a continuous aural feedback loop throughout the proceedings.  There should also be a visual feedback loop operating continuously  beteen the musicians and the dancers. If these feedback loops are operating the chances of anybody ''freelancing'' are minimised.

  band practices are also very helpful  ,particularly practicing and honing tunes in the sets that will be used  'on the night' 

george

 

[Ebor_fiddler]

In particular, practising the "boring" sets and tunes. Often the tunes we think we don't need to rehearse because we know them so well are precisely those which we mess up in action (well I do anyway!) 

[tekyinblack]

The tactful thing to do is mention it before it really starts to affect the rest of the band or audiences. A starting point is to actively lead for a while, calling which music to play, which can actively wake people up. To much and it will be irritating, but just enough to guide. If any band member wanders, speeds up etc, say something immediately to get it back on track, but it's not the army, so gently, and to the whole band, so it isn't pointed.
Another option is playing closer together, so you can all see/hear one another directly without having to listen out, until everyone has gelled again.

[Theo]

listening to the leader

Make sure there is a leader, and that all band members know who is the leader!  Sounds obvious, but in a group of friends sometimes there is not.  The leader does not always have to be the same person, you could have sets where different people lead.

If using a PA you can also turn down the musician who is going astray.  But tell them what is happening and why.

[Sage Herb]

It's true that none of us is perfect in band settings. Apart from the problem described in the OP, it can occasionally be very difficult to change tunes if for some reason you can't hear the second tune in your head. But for me it is a question of frequency - if someone is getting it wrong more than occasionally, I would get pretty unsympathetic. When your violinist goes wrong, do the rest of you follow? If the rest of you don't follow (ie you stick with the correct sequence), does the violinist notice that they are in the wrong place? A combination of getting it wrong, not watching the dancers and not listening to the rest of the band would be pretty unsatisfactory.
Cheers, and good luck in addressing the issue
Steve

[Chris Ryall]

There is perhaps an analogy in orchestras.

Oh, you want to go straight to bar 33, fine. And play a Bb instead of a C? No problem 
"This orchestra is fully committed to musical diversity and equality" 

[Howard Jones]

We all make mistakes from time to time, and I'm sure we've all been guilty of lapses of concentration - I know I have.  However she really needs to get a grip if this is happening frequently.  It's not really that difficult.  Compared with classical musicians who might have to count bars for pages of the score, we have it easy - all we have to do is repeat 32 bars a number of times.  Even so, I admit it can sometimes be difficult to count up to two!

Is she the lead player?  If so, losing her place habitually is unforgiveable and I can't see how you can continue to function as a ceilidh band unless this improves, since as you say it is disruptive to the dancers.  You will have to either replace her or demote her so that she has another lead musician to follow.  This can be difficult when you are dealing with a group of friends, perhaps partners, but it really can't go on.  On this thought, I wonder whether her heart is really in playing with the band, or whether she's just doing it in order to particpate with her partner or friends?

If she is not the lead musician, can she hear the rest of the band?  I find that good foldback is essential, but it's also important to get the foldback mix right.  I like to hear mainly myself and the fiddle player, with the rest of the band much quieter in the mix.  If she's really that disruptive and distracts the other players, turn her down in both the main mix and everyone else's foldback.

Watching the dancers is also important - in fact, it's essential.

Changing tunes in the set is a different problem.  I admit I'm not good at keeping track of how many times we've played one tune and often rely on someone else to call the change.  Again, keeping an eye on the progress of the dance can help.  Like Steve, I often can't 'hear' the next tune in my head in advance.  I've learned not to worry about it and to trust my auto-pilot, knowing that when the time comes to change the next tune will be there.  However this assumes that the set is well-rehearsed.

[george garside]

all of whats been said  answers the question -- What's the difference   between a band and a motley collection of musicians?

george

[Nick Collis Bird]

all of whats been said  answers the question -- What's the difference   between a band and a motley collection of musicians?

george

Discipline ? 

[pikey]

 Presume you're sticking to the well known formula of 'two As two Bs twice through'. Or some do thrice through. Either way, you need a set number that's the same for every dance you do.

Or Have you tried shouting 'change' just before the switch to the next tune? It's a pain to have to do it for every set, but if as Theo says you have a clear leader, then it soon becomes second nature to call Change. Your violinist should get it easily then!

Btw if she can't remember if she's done one A or 2 , consistently, then it's time for a different sort of change......

[george garside]

I  find that increasing the volume of my box for the last two bars before a change works well . This will only work if the leader is running on around half  to threequarter throttle for most of the tune which isn't a problem  if using amplification.  My problem though is  losing track of  when to indicate that the change is  due!

george

[pikey]

Or try the extreme JK method. Play just the A part again and again and again and again.....

[pikey]

Or get the fiddler to switch to bodhran/spoons/washboard/rythm banjo !

[Ebor_fiddler]

Can she play "Far Away"?