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Author Topic: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music  (Read 12403 times)

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pikey

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Re: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2013, 09:21:58 PM »

there are so many "traditional" musicians' tunebooks preserved that you have to think music-reading was surprisingly common even among "traditional" players.  A lot of "traditional" players would have been members of church or village bands and would probably have needed to play from written arrangements at least some of the time.

Wheres the Agree button? Im lucky that I can sight read from music on any instrument . But my preference is by ear. Apart from orchestral work.

I reckon they wrote them down as aide memoires, rather than to read from.

I think you're both right.

It's a myth that village musicians couldn't read music. Some of them could, and the competitive market for "this years tune book" by the London music publishers in the 18th and 19th centuries suggests this too.

I've been told that John Clare "collected" some of his tunes by sneaking into the local bookshop when a new tunebook was in and copying them into his notebook.
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squeezy

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Re: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2013, 09:28:59 PM »

By Ear only here ... I think once you get the knack then allowing any other method to also succeed is very hard indeed.

I can decipher written down music - but it's a long way to go from that to learning the tune that way.  I have to learn the tune by ear from hearing myself play it slowly and out of rhythm when trying to get it from the dots ... which I have had to do on many occasions!  If that makes sense.
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BJG

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Re: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2013, 09:29:29 PM »

Preferred method is to learn a tune by sight reading having heard it first.

Similarly, I find it easiest if I can hear it in my head and use the score as an aid. (I've never looked at this "ABC" thing, guess I should...)

The only instrument I've ever been able to look at notes and play them was the trumpet, once, since I learned it at school. But I mostly play by ear.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2013, 09:32:34 PM by BJG »
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squeezy

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Re: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2013, 09:32:01 PM »

I often learn a tune by playing it with my fingers on the pillow as I'm falling asleep. It's surprising how well this method works (for me).

I do this!

Not just on a pillow either ... on the steering wheel while driving, out for a walk on my legs ... "air melodeon" practice has a lot to commend it when in a situation where you haven't got a melodeon!
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busbox

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Re: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2013, 09:46:49 PM »

Yes. I use both. But I have not yet managed to play my melodeon with other players. I'm not sure what will happen then. The pattern for me tends to be as follows: I play harmonica for my sheep, adding new tunes by ear as I think of them. I then come inside and translate them to the melodeon. The similarity of the harmonica and melodeon makes this a natural transition. I also play tunes on the melodeon by ear when I know them really well from other instruments. What I find with those other isntruments however, especially the whistle, is that even - or maybe esp. - when I know a tune well to play alone I often need to discipline myself by looking at the music when playing in a group. I suppose this is what comes of being a hermit!
If you don't read music I'm sure it doesn't matter. I am trying to emulate you! Remember the story of the Verger (Somerset Maugham or Edgar Allan Poe?) who was sacked as a Verger because he could not read but later became a millionaire. When interviewed about his success he was asked ' What could you have been had you been able to read?' He replied 'A Verger'.
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mory

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Re: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music
« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2013, 09:48:07 PM »

I often learn a tune by playing it with my fingers on the pillow as I'm falling asleep. It's surprising how well this method works (for me).

Foreplay?  ;D
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oompahman

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Re: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2013, 09:48:37 PM »

Another vote for the "ear" brigade!
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pikey

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Re: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music
« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2013, 10:02:51 PM »

Yes. I use both. But I have not yet managed to play my melodeon with other players. I'm not sure what will happen then. The pattern for me tends to be as follows: I play harmonica for my sheep, adding new tunes by ear as I think of them. I then come inside

I thought it was just the Welsh and Yorkshiremen that enjoyed sheep?

 >:E
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Helena Handcart

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Re: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music
« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2013, 10:42:11 PM »

I often learn a tune by playing it with my fingers on the pillow as I'm falling asleep. It's surprising how well this method works (for me).

Me too, well not on the pillow but on my desk at work or my workbench at home.  Works for me (in a beginnerish sort of way in my case)
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penn

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Re: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music
« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2013, 10:49:13 PM »

When I started learning the box, I promised myself I would make an effort to learn dots, having been an “ear” guitarist for so long.
I use an ABC app on the ipad to display the dots; I work out the first note by counting the lines; I find the first note on the keyboard by referring to the melodeon.net keyboard layout.

Then I listen to the tune on the ipad and learn to play it by ear.

I've worked out that the lines work pretty well with the box. If the tune starts on a line and the next note is on a line, then it's (probably) the next note up in the same bellows direction. So generally this method gives me a decent reference for relative positions of notes. I tend to be a bit lost if I forget where the tune starts tho.

I have tried accordeon tabs, but I find them less satisfying – finding the shapes and positions and working out when a bellows direction change is needed (or how to avoid one) is all part of the enjoyment of learning a new tune.

So I'm still by ear, the dots get me started. I couldn't manage without the ABC ipad app.
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rees

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Re: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2013, 11:12:51 PM »

I often learn a tune by playing it with my fingers on the pillow as I'm falling asleep. It's surprising how well this method works (for me).

Foreplay?  ;D

No, contraception.  ;D
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Rob2Hook

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Re: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music
« Reply #51 on: October 04, 2013, 12:08:32 AM »

[... "air melodeon" practice has a lot to commend it when in a situation where you haven't got a melodeon!
Do you often have policemen approach you on your walks, John?  The picture is priceless!

Rob.
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Re: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music
« Reply #52 on: October 04, 2013, 12:11:54 AM »

I think it just looks like I'm whistling a jaunty tune and tapping out a rhythm on my pockets ... I think that's what it looks like ... Please God - just let it look like that!
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Graham Spencer

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Re: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music
« Reply #53 on: October 04, 2013, 05:06:10 AM »

Obviously written music has enormous value in providing a record of thousands of tunes; a slight downside is that it also tends to fossilise tunes in a particular version which comes to be accepted as "correct", and (some) players then strive to play it note-for-note EXACTLY as written, and slight variations when playing in the company of other musicians may attract a disapproving glance.  I've never been told "You're playing that wrong", but "That's an interesting variant" can mean exactly that!

Graham
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Re: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music
« Reply #54 on: October 04, 2013, 09:35:48 AM »

strange mélange of ear (preferred) and .… i'd probably call it ABC. 

I can hit named notes and these are mapped to the buttons in my head.

But dots are manually converted. I know what those tadpoles on the lines are, but some of the spaces still get worked out the long way. They don't map like the letters do. I should have got this sorted on courses, but most were abroad where I had enough problems with the teacher naming Sib but hitting Bb :-\

Scales are embedded in my music-brain and I construct the chords form these at  reasonable pace, then look for Ab, C, Eb, G somewhere on the keyboard. Common chords I learned long ago.

Yes I know that's not Morris, there were saxophones in the room. I got my revenge 'cos the "break" was in G 8). The "song"? I let them sight read, then picked it up by ear. A right mix, eh?

Can't concur with Squeezy that learning other methods is wrong and bad for your ear. Doing just that has been enriching for me. I have however observed many people struggle with an unscored tune, the other way. Some find it impossible.

This suggests that there is some sort of "mapping" happening. I've mapped dot to note, and note to press. A true sight reader has achieved dot to "hit". Musical Nirvana, but not somewhere I've been
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 09:44:08 AM by Chris Ryall »
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Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music
« Reply #55 on: October 04, 2013, 09:49:07 AM »

I eventually got to the point, that if you can hum it I can play it.
I really really tried hard to learn music, but being a mathematical thing I found it impossible. :'(
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Re: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music
« Reply #56 on: October 04, 2013, 09:51:28 AM »

My method seems simple enough in my head but thinking it through it suddenly becomes a lot more complicated.

I learnt to read music playing the guitar- and guitarists are notoriously bad sight readers, and that transfers to my melodeon playing.

I sit with a tune in front of me, and tap out the dots in rhythm, before I ever touch the box. This gives me a feel of the tune and how it's written down to sound.
I am also far more comfortable with reading/knowing the notes on the G row (I have no idea why this is as I can cross row pretty effectively by feel- or ear, but the link between the D row and the dots has never really made it's way from inner to outer row in my mess of a brain)
From this I will construct the tune on one row, using the dots and rhythm, later adding in cross rows where it seems to be more efficient and suit the tune.

I must add that I am perfectly comfortable to pick up a tune by ear- get it in the head, and the fingers will teach themselves
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Re: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music
« Reply #57 on: October 04, 2013, 10:40:47 AM »

Can't concur with Squeezy that learning other methods is wrong and bad for your ear.

Unless I've missed something, I think he said said it was "hard" - that's not the same as "wrong"

My observation of others with a natural quick ear is the same - how are you ever going to make yourself learn to read a tune from the dots if you already know it having heard it once? It can be done, but you have to force yourself to work your way though books of tunes you don't know, and it takes a long time before you get the satisfaction of playing any of it remotely well so it's not much fun. (= won't happen)

Conversely I don't believe anyone has a natural talent for sight reading - those who can read music well are, like myself, those who struggle to remember a tune a minute after they've heard it, even for the 20th time, so they've simply had to learn to read in order to be able to play anything at all.
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Re: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music
« Reply #58 on: October 04, 2013, 11:53:43 AM »

Mostly by ear, but I can read the dots though really only use them as a storage medium. Drawback of playing by ear is that it's easy to omit the detail of a tune.

Steve
Agree, it's very easy to get sloppy once you think you've 'got' a tune, especially if you adopt one of your regular keyboard shortcuts which just happens to fit the tune. Guilty as charged on several occasions.
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squeezy

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Re: Do you learn by ear or off sheet music
« Reply #59 on: October 04, 2013, 11:55:31 AM »

Can't concur with Squeezy that learning other methods is wrong and bad for your ear.
Unless I've missed something, I think he said said it was "hard" - that's not the same as "wrong"

I definitely didn't say that anything was wrong!  I said:

Quote from: Squeezy
By Ear only here ... I think once you get the knack then allowing any other method to also succeed is very hard indeed.

Which I admit was not the most clear of sentences.  But what I meant was for me, because I started by ear - then it was hard to succeed at any other methods because I kept going back to the old tried and trusted method I knew.  I was also inferring that I think similar forces are at work in the other direction too.

Cheers

Squeezy

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