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Author Topic: 19 Tone Equal Temperament  (Read 6721 times)

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Owen Woods

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19 Tone Equal Temperament
« on: November 02, 2013, 05:57:14 PM »

Hello all,

I have decided that I haven't alienated my core audience enough, so I've had a stab at making up a melodeon layout for 19 Tone Equal Temperament. Enjoy!

http://ukebert.wordpress.com/2013/11/02/19-tone-equal-temperament/
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: 19 Tone Equal Temperament
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2013, 06:27:18 PM »

Interesting. But that Bach Gamba sonata sounds bloody awful.  :o
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dunlustin

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Re: 19 Tone Equal Temperament
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2013, 07:12:51 PM »

But why stop at 19?

See

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfItIxxSdzg

at 5min20 and on
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LDbosca

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Re: 19 Tone Equal Temperament
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2013, 08:00:39 PM »

Interesting. But that Bach Gamba sonata sounds bloody awful.  :o

I concur. Well-temperament seems ideal for the melodeon to me; especially since even the "chromatic" ones tend to play in certain keys. As you may have read, I have the bass setup on mine outside of equal temperament.

Owen, have you heard Bradley Lehman's Bach temperament? He has some notion that the illustration on the front of the Well-Tempered Clavier book provides the key to Bach's tuning, whether true or not it sounds great.

Owen Woods

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Re: 19 Tone Equal Temperament
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2013, 09:43:27 PM »

The Bach piece is an interesting one. Bits of it sound great, but there is the odd note which is very out. It't the major seventh I think, which is a whopping 26 cents out from 12TET. But in itself it is 15 cents out from Just and the 12TET major third is 14 cents out from Just... interesting how perceptions change.

The point that I would make is that pieces that sound fantastic in one temperament will not sound fantastic in other temperaments. I have heard pieces written for 19TET and they sound great, but you use the notes in very different ways. So playing Bach isn't really fair, but it is interesting nonetheless.

I have heard Lehman's temperament and whether or not it is what Bach used, it sounds great! I'm not sure whether Well Temperament is ideal for the box, I rather fancy sixth comma, just because I have that sort of mind.
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oggiesnr

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Re: 19 Tone Equal Temperament
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2013, 10:07:50 PM »

Out of interest, how would you sort out the bass end?

As far as I can see it would need quite a complex stradella.

Steve
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pikey

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Re: 19 Tone Equal Temperament
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2013, 10:09:37 PM »

Ouch.......
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Owen Woods

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Re: 19 Tone Equal Temperament
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2013, 10:11:11 PM »

Bass end? Dunno. Probably some sort of free bass with open fifths.
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Re: 19 Tone Equal Temperament
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2013, 11:11:36 AM »

Will that make your Bach worse than your Byte? ;-)
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oggiesnr

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Re: 19 Tone Equal Temperament
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2013, 11:15:10 PM »

Bass end? Dunno. Probably some sort of free bass with open fifths.

Agree about open fifths.  I'm sort of envisaging a 48 bass stradella with the two inner rows being the traditional bass/chord in the circle of fifths and the outer two rows being the extra tones placed in the relative part of the cycle.  OK it leaves redundancy in the outer row which I imagine you'd fill with appropriate duplicates.

Steve
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Ollie

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Re: 19 Tone Equal Temperament
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2013, 11:32:57 PM »

Bass end? Dunno. Probably some sort of free bass with open fifths.

Could you not work on something based on your harmonetta system?
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Owen Woods

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Re: 19 Tone Equal Temperament
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2013, 09:04:03 AM »

Bass end? Dunno. Probably some sort of free bass with open fifths.

Could you not work on something based on your harmonetta system?

Erm, no! 19 tones I think would be too much for that. If you were going to play it purely diatonically then maybe, but that would be far too limiting.
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Re: 19 Tone Equal Temperament
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2013, 01:36:17 PM »

I think it would be fantastic!

What modern, boring equal temperament is lacking is the option to occasionally make the listener feel slightly sick!

Seriously though ... I really think that alternative scales to the commonly known ones need new music writing for them if they are to make sense.  Which is something I would really like to see and explore.
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Owen Woods

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Re: 19 Tone Equal Temperament
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2013, 01:47:36 PM »

I think it would be fantastic!

What modern, boring equal temperament is lacking is the option to occasionally make the listener feel slightly sick!

Seriously though ... I really think that alternative scales to the commonly known ones need new music writing for them if they are to make sense.  Which is something I would really like to see and explore.

Agreed. What works for 19TET wouldn't work for 12TET and vice versa. 19TET is convenient for our purposes because you can play in any of the 19 keys with the same harmony, you have an expanded scale and you don't have such foolishness as split keys and the like. So it maps well onto an accordion framework. It would map better I fancy onto a unisonoric framework, but where's the fun in that? :P
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LDbosca

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Re: 19 Tone Equal Temperament
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2013, 11:30:35 PM »


What modern, boring equal temperament is lacking is the option to occasionally make the listener feel slightly sick!


I dunno, I feel pretty ill listening to ET major 3rds.

Theo

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Re: 19 Tone Equal Temperament
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2013, 10:33:21 AM »

I only get seriously out of my harmonic depth, when I attempt to play with bagpipes.

Most pipes use just intonation, so just drone and you will be ok.  ;)
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Re: 19 Tone Equal Temperament
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2013, 11:48:20 PM »

Very nice video about 19-TET on the guitar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ7WbmhCsqs
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Re: 19 Tone Equal Temperament
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2013, 08:43:47 AM »

I saw that one too.
I found it interesting because he answered the question "Why?" (As did the woman with the quarter-tone accordion.)
I really liked the idea of a sub-minor minor and a super-major major.
But would I end up with even fewer friends than I have already?
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Re: 19 Tone Equal Temperament
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2013, 08:58:17 AM »

I hadn't, but thanks for pointing out a well made little video.
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Owen Woods

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Re: 19 Tone Equal Temperament
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2013, 08:58:58 AM »

I had (:) That's what got me interested in 19TET.
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