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[Bob Ellis]

Last year the structure of Melodeons at Witney was altered so that each student attended three workshops (two on Saturday and one on Sunday), whereas formerly we attended just two workshops (one on each day). The altered structure has been retained for this year. My question is: "Which is better: the old system or the new one?"

While the changes to Sunday are minimal, I think the change from one to two workshops on Saturday have affected the nature of the weekend, but is it for the better or the worse?

The old structure allowed the tutors to go into more depth, with more emphasis on technique, expression and ornamentation. The new system enables students to attend workshops run by three different tutors instead of two, but are there other advantages to this system?

I would be interested to know what others think.

[Lester]

The changes are the main reason I will not be attending this year for the first time in years. The shortness of the Saturday courses detracts from the 'learning experience' in my view me requiring ning the tutors  to either rush things to get content in or reduce the content to the detriment of the attendees.

Dave needs to listen to his customers, this years debacle with the late notification of the change of date also shows a lack of customer focus.

Any of you who are distraught at the thought of not seeing me can be happy as I will be popping in on Sunday for the trade show and to see Pip on the Hobgob stall.   

[rees]

Good, I need your professional opinion too (Erica related  )

[Lester]

Good, I need your professional opinion too (Erica related  )

 

[malcolmbebb]

I've not been, but was thinking about it for next year. I suppose it begs the question, who are the target customers?

Always difficult when you have, I imagine, such a large spread of experience and ability. A long session might be more useful if it's a close match to what you want, but, even allowing for several parallel options, if it isn't it's going to make for a long day cuddling your melodeon.

Are two short sessions better for beginners? If you're struggling by lunchtime, whereas the more experienced players are just getting warmed up, who gets the benefit?

I will watch with interest.

[Andy Next Tune]

Can't make it this year due to the date change - I'd planned around the 'traditional' MAW weekend.

I think I preferred the original format as it did give you a chance to get immersed in something. However I know some people struggled with the Saturday because of the choices they made which were perhaps over ambitious, or the reality of a session did not match with its description.

There isn't a right answer as it is down to individual needs and expectations.

If MAW was/is predominantly attracting comparatively inexperienced players, then three sessions probably works best. But it does then run the risk of becoming unattractive to the more experienced players looking for new ideas and challenges, which perhaps need more than a few hours tuition to master.

[Ollie]

I expect it's probably quite hard for the tutors spend an entire day teaching a group of people looking at just one subject.

[Steve_freereeder]

I've been a regular at MAW for 14 years, as both a punter and as a tutor. I love the weekend - it's a high point in the year for me, both for the music/technical side and also for the lovely social occasion it is. I have made many friends there.

Like other respondents, I also preferred the old-style format, working with 'tutor 1' on Saturday and 'tutor 2' on Sunday. It was a chance to get really stuck in to some intensive work, and this is definitely diluted under new format. I also liked having the late afternoon showcase event on both days, where everyone came together in the main hall from their workshops and the various groups demonstrated what they'd been doing during the day. In the new format, this only happens on the Sunday and there's not enough time to do all the groups justice.

I expect it's probably quite hard for the tutors spend an entire day teaching a group of people looking at just one subject.

As a tutor, I actually found working with a specific group for all of Saturday and another group for all of Sunday was very rewarding; I never felt as though I was running out of things to do, or that people were bored (at least I hope not!  ). It gave me the time to go into tunes/technicalities etc. which would not have been possible with shorter workshop durations. I get the feeling that the new format workshops are too rushed, partly perhaps because the tutors are still not used to the shorter time slots.

I can see that there are some advantages of the new format, one of them being that an extremely popular and sought-after tutor can be shared out among more people. But overall, I think more has been lost than gained. MAW was always about really intensive work and learning, and while I think that is still the case, there is now less chance to practice and iron out specific difficulties under the new format.

[Chris Ryall]

What a strange post, Ollie. Are you concerned about their emotions, or suggesting they cannot rise to the task?

Either way, two brief forums that both skim an issues superficially won't attract me, but I copped out when Dave scheduled only beginner forums on the saturday, and clashed both that i fancied on the sunday.  To lose punters on one issue may be bad luck. Two? Well, maybe Brandon Thomas might understand the target audience better

Just spent my own Sunday looking at phrygian mode, some wacky chords in there, and i learned the importance of its characteristic note in them. There were 12 of us, about 8 melodeonistas. The clashing topic was on blues.

Yes, it's a social event too, there are other ways of doing that, as it isn't free it must primarily work as a course

[Ollie]

Not at all, Chris. That said, professional musicians are not necessarily trained/natural teachers, so was merely wondering if some found it difficult with the whole day format. Large group teaching can be difficult, especially with the melodeon, where even in classes aimed at the same ability level people are at different stages and have come at the problem from many different angles.

Just me thinking aloud, feel free to ignore. 

[malcolmbebb]

Just wondering.

Any event like this runs the risk of becoming seen as stale. The organisers need to try different things, that's life.  Is there a feedback mechanism, beyond wittering on here, to tell them what worked and what didn't?
And do we have an organiser's eye view of why they changed it?

[Steve_freereeder]

Just wondering.

Any event like this runs the risk of becoming seen as stale. The organisers need to try different things, that's life.  Is there a feedback mechanism, beyond wittering on here, to tell them what worked and what didn't?
And do we have an organiser's eye view of why they changed it?

The great variety of music and styles offered by the different tutors every year largely ensures MAW doesn't become stale. For the organisers (basically Dave and Mandy Townsend) to try different things is one thing, and tweaks are made from time to time, but essentially they have an excellent event which works very well, even in the new format; so mostly the old adage holds - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

There is plenty of opportunity for feedback - all participants and tutors are offered feedback forms to complete at the event; Dave Townsend is always around and ensures that he speaks to most, if not all, people during the weekend, to make sure that there are no problems (rarely some issues do crop up, and as far as possible solutions are found on the fly); finally DT always invites e-mail or postal correspondence after the event.

You can't please everybody all the time and inevitably there will be some people who, for one reason or another, have had (for them) a less than satisfactory experience at MAW. However, I talk to people as well as keeping my eyes and ears open, gathering my own informal feedback, and I truly think that the overwhelming majority of attenders at MAW find it a happy and rewarding experience. Many keep returning year after year, which says something, I think.

 

[Bob Ellis]

My primary reason for initiating this thread was that I think something has been lost under the new format. I have attended almost every year since 1997 and have got something out of almost every workshop I have attended. The main exception to this was the Saturday workshops last year, which, under the new format, seemed too rushed and superficial.

I would like very much to see a return to the old format, so I intend to speak to Dave Townsend about this during the weekend. However, before doing so, I wanted to know whether others shared my perception that the changes have done more harm than good. Perhaps we should draw Dave's attention to this thread and suggest that he reads and mulls over some of the comments made.

I believe (although I am not certain) that the change was brought in because it was anticipated that most course members would want to attend at least one of Andy Cutting's workshops last year and having two workshops on Saturday rather than one would enable more people to do so. If so, this was probably a one-off situation because Andy had not (as far as I remember) tutored at Melodeons at Witney before. Perhaps, if enough of us talk to Dave over the weekend about our concerns, he might consider reverting to the previous format.

[Steve_freereeder]

I believe (although I am not certain) that the change was brought in because it was anticipated that most course members would want to attend at least one of Andy Cutting's workshops last year and having two workshops on Saturday rather than one would enable more people to do so. If so, this was probably a one-off situation because Andy had not (as far as I remember) tutored at Melodeons at Witney before. Perhaps, if enough of us talk to Dave over the weekend about our concerns, he might consider reverting to the previous format.

Yes - one of the reasons for the new format was to give more people a chance to sign up for a workshop with tutors for whom there would be an anticipated heavy demand. Last year this was indeed Andy Cutting. In previous years, John Spiers and John Kirkpatrick have also been deemed to be 'popular' tutors and therefore Dave T limited attenders to sign up to no more than one workshop per popular tutor in order to give as many people as possible the chance of working with them.

BTW Checking back through my records, I see that prior to last year, Andy's previous tutorship at MAW was in 2003. 

[Sue]

I'm not sure the new arrangement is better for beginners.  When you're new to it doing two different workshops on two days can be quite daunting, but doing three is worse.  Three lots of music rather than two, splitting your available pre-Witney practice/reading/thinking/listening time into three rather than two.  I think three different sessions might be a bit too much for new players.  Just a thought!
Sue

[Chris Ryall]

I find all this gentle coaxing of the weekend organiser a bit twee as we seem to see similar unfavourable comment in successive years. Rather weak evidence that a gentle word in his ear might change this ship's course? He's completely entitled to a "take it, or leave it " attitude, of course. I'm with Lester as to how to respond.

[Bob Ellis]

No, Chris, I don't agree. If we vote with our feet, we end up with no Melodeons at Witney at all. It is still a good course that is well worth attending. We should express our opinions unequivocally, in the hope that Dave will take notice of our views, but the main loser if we just walk away is us, because there won't be a course.

[malcolmbebb]

... Many keep returning year after year, which says something, I think.

... we seem to see similar unfavourable comment in successive years.

Hmmm... you can please all the people some some of the time... perhaps?


However, despite the routine moaning similar unfavourable comment, the event (and its sister events) seem to have been very successful over time??

(And, since Bob's post crossed mine, I think I'd quite like it to be there next year so I can go.)

[Ellie]

Only just noticed this. I strongly disliked the change in format last year, and intended to feed back my thoughts. Unfortunately I never got round to doing so (I can't fill in a feedback form at the end of Sunday because I need a bit of time to calm down and think things over afterwards!). I very nearly didn't sign up for this year, and only the quality of 2 of the tutors in particular persuaded me that even if the format wasn't to my liking then at least the teaching would still be good.

As the others have said, the great advantage of full days is that you really have time to absorb what you're learning. Last year's Saturday courses meant that I didn't really come away with that same depth of knowledge, which was a disappointment.

In response to Ollie's comment, I would have thought it *easier* to teach a whole day, as it gives you a chance to get to know your students a bit rather than just sharing information without actually teaching and embedding it.

I will be interested to see if there are less attendees this year, as it seems to me that a lot of the usual suspects will not be there.

[Steve Fox]

I have to say that I am really disappointed that I can't go this year because of another commitment, though I am less disappointed than I otherwise would have been had the old format still been in operation.  I too found the Saturday sessions too sketchy, not through any fault of the tutors, who were excellent, but because of time limitations.  I also found the late notification about the change of weekend rather frustrating.  That said, I have every intention of returning next year, whatever the format, as what makes Witney so special is the old friends you meet up with.  I hope everyone who is going has a wonderful time.