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Author Topic: Naragonia - where to start?  (Read 18614 times)

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Owen Woods

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Re: Naragonia - where to start?
« Reply #60 on: November 14, 2013, 05:18:05 PM »

The question of why we perceive different keys in different ways is one that I would love to be able to answer, it is a massive mystery in my head. After all, with 12TET (at least nominally), the harmonies should be identical :(
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Naragonia - where to start?
« Reply #61 on: November 14, 2013, 05:30:08 PM »

in answer to Dunlustin, I'm really happy that this thread has meandered through unusual waters for me, I'm letting the flow take me....... just going with the flow and enjoying the musical scenery and the friendly discussion  (:)
I think the later comments are starting to make a point for me; maybe something that Theo said right at the beginning - it's *how* they play that makes them special.
Perhaps with my roots firmly entrenched in D/G land, I'll just enjoy listening and watching the wonderful playing on Youtube rather than manically start transposing everything and getting bogged down in what exactly they're playing .....
Sit back and enjoy seems to be the message for me
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I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Naragonia - where to start?
« Reply #62 on: November 14, 2013, 06:59:01 PM »

Dunlustin - that's a good point, and I agree wholeheartedly.
Years back, so many friends were brilliant guitarists, and my reasonable efforts on guitar felt derisory in comparison. I gave up eventually. I've never felt that when I took up concertina and now melodeon, despite the world being better than me.
It frees you up to want to try and improve, and still be able to listen to the wondrous efforts of those much further along the melodeon road with simple enjoyment.
Cheers
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I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Chris Ryall

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Re: Naragonia - where to start?
« Reply #63 on: November 14, 2013, 07:40:14 PM »

Still a bit irritated about the "grade 8" thing. As Ollie says, keys carry different moods, actually BBC did a series on it a couple of years ago, examples of music of all genres in all 12 keys. I listened to most of them; highly recommended.

These guys are way beyond grade 8, basically where Ollie is headed, plus 10 years of playing and teaching experience, plus a massively successful partnership in all meanings of the word, (I think there are trois frères now  ;))

So, I'm labouring a bit in Bb  :-\ Ollie has a box in that key :D Chris and Derek are doing really well ;D

Bb a pig on your box?Try the link below (now some 2 pages back). Run the chord sequence, best you can on left end and,  "magic of melodeons" the right end melody will generally be there. It took me well over half an hour to sus ;) and type in the chords. I think I've done my share to help the OP?

 http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,13562.msg167566.html#msg167566

PS I'm a grade 0
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 07:53:06 PM by Chris Ryall »
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Naragonia - where to start?
« Reply #64 on: November 14, 2013, 07:59:47 PM »

Not being able to do what they do, no longer makes me want to give up playing.

My thoughts exactly! Great players, whatever their instrument are there to be both admired and to be a source of inspiration. In my experience attending a workshop led by a professional player leaves you with your head buzzing with ideas and a great desire to be the best you can be.

Oh and I'm with Chris Ryall, grade 0 all the way!

Pete.
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Re: Naragonia - where to start?
« Reply #65 on: November 14, 2013, 11:44:25 PM »

The question of why we perceive different keys in different ways is one that I would love to be able to answer, it is a massive mystery in my head. After all, with 12TET (at least nominally), the harmonies should be identical :(

Yeah, i still dont get this either. Perhaps it is something about your reference? Like,..if you hear a lot of Em around it will become your reference. going up, to, say Gm is cheerful, going down, to, say Dm, is drama?
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Naragonia - where to start?
« Reply #66 on: November 15, 2013, 12:35:30 AM »

Feel your feelings, gentlemen.

This can be looked at logically, but in that it fails.

It is a common human experience, and in that … a mystery.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Naragonia - where to start?
« Reply #67 on: November 15, 2013, 01:19:17 AM »

Just to keep us in touch with "tradition"  … this video just appeared on my FB feed,  une gavotte de l'Aven, bagpipe/bombarde led, and in Bb, but otherwise rather different from our paradigm? I did say they did it rather faster.

  http://youtu.be/6zlEldNjyIE

… i have no idea why the dancers have numbers on their arses!
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xgx

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Re: Naragonia - where to start?
« Reply #68 on: November 15, 2013, 01:59:57 AM »

...and the Yanks thought they had invented line dancing  ;D

The strident tone of the pipes is a world away from Naragonia!


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AirTime

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Re: Naragonia - where to start?
« Reply #69 on: November 15, 2013, 04:26:31 AM »

Quote
Just to keep us in touch with "tradition"  … this video just appeared on my FB feed,  une gavotte de l'Aven, bagpipe/bombarde led, and in Bb, but otherwise rather different from our paradigm? I did say they did it rather faster.

  http://youtu.be/6zlEldNjyIE

… i have no idea why the dancers have numbers on their arses!

Talking about "massive mysteries" - what about the logarithms behind YouTube? I clicked on Chris's link & this video popped up (for the first time ever) on my screen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC1LxI6IYKs


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Re: Naragonia - where to start?
« Reply #70 on: November 15, 2013, 08:07:08 AM »

Quote
Just to keep us in touch with "tradition"  … this video just appeared on my FB feed,  une gavotte de l'Aven, bagpipe/bombarde led, and in Bb, but otherwise rather different from our paradigm? I did say they did it rather faster.

  http://youtu.be/6zlEldNjyIE

… i have no idea why the dancers have numbers on their arses!

what about the logarithms behind YouTube?
They must be to help do the calculations using the dancers' numbers to see who wins.
Mind you, I stopped using log tables when I bought my first calculator. Although I remember my work colleague had a sort of tubular slide rule. But that was HisTube.
 ;)
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Ellisteph

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Re: Naragonia - where to start?
« Reply #71 on: November 15, 2013, 08:11:25 AM »



Talking about "massive mysteries" - what about the logarithms behind YouTube? I clicked on Chris's link & this video popped up (for the first time ever) on my screen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC1LxI6IYKs
[/quote]
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Naragonia - where to start?
« Reply #72 on: November 15, 2013, 09:10:34 AM »

Mystery indeed. Could it have perhaps latched on the words "gavotte" and "Aven"? (:)

Here's another one that Djal do, he's in "easy" Am, and I've learned it in correspondingly "easy" Em on my box. Milleret originally composed in Gm, interestingly with those three flats again. I think it sounds better that way.

  http://youtu.be/zATW3RGLdLM

As I said above the "bal" movement have taken this town's dance and stripped it down to the central "gavotting" part. Also slowed it down … considerably to a sort of dream movement. A different dance really? But at least music and dance still connect; I don't mind progress (:) At Sheffield I did my usual trick of closing my eyes and just going with the flow. Only to remember that I was leading my line of four!  ::)
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AirTime

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Re: Naragonia - where to start?
« Reply #73 on: November 15, 2013, 03:06:05 PM »

Quote
Mystery indeed. Could it have perhaps latched on the words "gavotte" and "Aven"?

Yes, but in numerous "Naragonia" googlings it never appeared before. I had assumed I had seen all the Naragonia clips on YouTube, then voilà - I click on your link & it suddenly appears! Just so I understand, does that mean it appeared in everyone's YouTube "suggestions" ???

Les Deux Frères doesn't seem like an unattainably difficult tune to play - it doesn't involve wildly complex or fast fingering - which is why the question of the tuning/layout of the boxes seems pertinent. Of course, playing it as well as they do, is another matter.
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Ollie

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Re: Naragonia - where to start?
« Reply #74 on: November 16, 2013, 12:00:21 AM »

Here are other people's views on the characteristics of different keys - http://biteyourownelbow.com/keychar.htm You seem to be treating this as if this is some unfathomable idea that I've made up out of thin air. It isn't.

This (I think) is the BBC series that Chris referred to earlier - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00tw55v/episodes/player
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 12:02:56 AM by Ollie »
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Re: Naragonia - where to start?
« Reply #75 on: November 16, 2013, 07:29:38 AM »

Les Deux Frères doesn't seem like an unattainably difficult tune to play - it doesn't involve wildly complex or fast fingering - which is why the question of the tuning/layout of the boxes seems pertinent. Of course, playing it as well as they do, is another matter.

A good point.... Having parted with my Bb/Eb box, I tried the next nearest, my F#/B/E. I was able to stumble pretty well thru the phrases, and even make some reasonable chord/bass blends that sounded semi-worthy. (In the key of B, of course). So, I was dumfounded to learn that they were actually playing this on a G/C/acc setup. That has put them in in another galaxy from me. Notwithstanding their wonderful timing, technique, phrasing, and delicacy, in addition one would have to master the more complex system to really tackle the nuances of what they are doing. And own a top instrument as well. Where to start indeed.  :(
   But of course a journey always begins with the first step  8).  TotM anyone?

« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 07:34:40 AM by forrest »
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Re: Naragonia - where to start?
« Reply #76 on: November 16, 2013, 07:51:26 AM »

It's also common to associate specific colours with keys. Scriabin was famous for this, not surprisingly as he had synaesthesia, but others have the key/colour associations, though not everyone's mapping is the same.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Naragonia - where to start?
« Reply #77 on: November 16, 2013, 10:00:54 AM »

I remember listening to the BBC prog when it was first broadcast as I drove home from work on the car radio.
I found it really interesting and though can't remember details of it, I do remember thinking the points made sense and came away with the view that keys implied moods.
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Chris Ryall

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Re: Naragonia - where to start?
« Reply #78 on: November 16, 2013, 11:11:12 AM »

Moods and keys are not a matter of adding sharps and flats, though I feel the common ones with sharps as "bright" this particularly true of A

Modes add a whole other dimension. viz You can start each diatonic major on any of its 7 notes as "classic greek modes", Melnet got bored with me wittering about this, so please refer to http://chrisryall.net/modes

Net effect is 12x7 = 84 possibilities; the melodeonista (unless undergoing therapy) just uses the ones that run well on his own kit. So take D, with two #'s, "quite bright and spritely" as a key? Its natural minor is Bm with the same C# and F#, now I feel it "very mellow", great scale to explore incidentally and present as "push minor" on all D/Gs. you might like the 3rd taped out of your B bass.

Lots to explore then, yes the program was good, but it only touched on this. I think it is a "follow your feelings" issue, though interesting and unexplained that we human beings tend to react to scales in the different but fairly predicatable ways?

[ed] been away overnight and missed a "refresh" :-\ the above is in answer to Dunlistin's capo experiments.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 11:15:57 AM by Chris Ryall »
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Re: Naragonia - where to start?
« Reply #79 on: November 16, 2013, 03:16:59 PM »

My first post - hey ho :-)

Naragonia: I met them this summer at the Sommerbordunale here in Germany. Toon, Pascale and their children. Great musicians in concert but the best when they play for the dance!

Keys and moods/colours/emotions: Don't forget that the concert pitch has changed over the years. So C Major is not the same as it was in the Baroque f.e. And even now the concert pitch is higher than the one used at the time of Scriabin. Scriabin had a connection between colours and piano keys. No idea if he had the same connetion, if the piano was out of tune … :-)
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