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« on: December 12, 2013, 10:42:28 AM »

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« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 12:37:05 AM by . »
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Theo

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Re: Hohner Double-Ray De Luxe......Information sought.
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2013, 10:51:07 AM »

I believe from looking at instruments, (not from any documentary evidence) that the models with the rounded grill like this were developed after WW2.  The pink pearloid ones like this example were the earlies examples as far as I can work out, probably using up pre-war stocks of the pink material, then later ones are red, black and various other colours.

The Double Ray is two voice and the Double Ray De Luxe is three voice, and has a better design of treble keyboard with removable top plate, and in some (all?) cases a different bass mechanism with an extra tonic reed and reed sharing so bass and chord each play four reeds, with the two highest tonics shared between bass and chord.

Double ray is identical in all but name and tuning to Erica, and Double Ray De Luxe same as Corso.

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Theo Gibb

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Theo

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Re: Hohner Double-Ray De Luxe......Information sought.
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2013, 12:07:53 PM »

Haha, yes the colour is hard to describe!   And it can fade if exposed to sunlight, sometimes the colour can be restored by careful polishing with a cutting polish.

The bass layout is most likely the this old Hohner pattern designed for playing along the rows, because Hohner never really understood how semitone boxes are played for Irish and Scottish music. 

The original tuning would probably be something like -18/0/+18, or possibly a bit wider.
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Theo Gibb

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chris obrien

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Re: Hohner Double-Ray De Luxe......Information sought.
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2013, 01:47:19 PM »

Hi, a friend of mine bought one of those hohners same key and same colour  in 1953 in Ireland,maby this information will help you to date when it was made.
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pgroff

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Re: Hohner Double-Ray De Luxe......Information sought.
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2013, 02:18:09 PM »

aradru,

Ah but the old Hohner basses -- if your box is a B/C and that old Hohner bass system is what you have -- make perfect sense if you play it based from the outside B melody row, in the keys of B, E, F#, G#minor, C#minor, etc.

As if it were a D/D# box and you were playing in a D session.

That way you would be using your B/C box in a style "along the row" that would be in tune with a B whistle or B pipes, or a fiddle tuned down a minor third (D string down to B).

That's the way that P. J. Conlon's sister, Rose Murphy, played her B/C Double Ray deluxe, according to a friend of mine who knew her: *

http://www.topicrecords.co.uk/rose-murphy-milltown-lass-tsdl316/

The old Hohner B/C bass layout does have one pair of Bass/Chord buttons that give C/G, so those would work with the C row.

I have a red 1950s B/C in original Hohner layout for playing in that Rose Murphy style.  A nice thing about the Hohners, is that there is a fair amount of standardization in dimensions within the same time period.  So you could probably get a spare set of Hohner DR deluxe (or Corso) bass/chord reedblocks from that same time period to switch into your box at will, and tune those to a customized layout more suited to your style of playing from the inside row.  If you want to use this box as a "C#/D style box but in C pitch" then you might find that bass/chord reedblocks from a 1950s Hohner Corso in G/C give you almost everything you want -- except for the A minor chord and the F playing both ways, they are close to the traditional Paolo Soprani layout.  Again, that's what I did with my 1950s B/C Double Ray deluxe -- original reedblocks + spare bass/chord blocks from a G/C Corso.

PG

* With the caveat that, like many single-row players, Rose played some "G tunes in D fingering," i.e. "Trim the velvet" in the tonic key of the row (B -- rather than E as a piper usually would when playing a B set).  Here the tracks from her recording are available in digital form with previews:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/milltown-lass/id587127371
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 02:33:36 PM by pgroff »
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george garside

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Re: Hohner Double-Ray De Luxe......Information sought.
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2013, 02:54:26 PM »

I think the rounded grille as per the photo came in around the mid fifties.   Most double ray delux had 12 stradella bass making it more or less a 2 row version of the trichord 3.    Some however like the one shown had 8 melodeon bass.  Just to  further confuse matters hohner made some 'standard' 2 voice double rays  with  12 stradella  and I just missed one on ebay. 

The  2 voice double ray with stradella  is a very useful ultra lightweight box  having bass enough for CGDA with a bit of something for F & E.
and ould be viewed as a good 'morris' box with  4 extra kehys thrown in ( and without the need for a 3rd row of accidentals!)
george
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gettabettabox

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Re: Hohner Double-Ray De Luxe......Information sought.
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2013, 06:04:05 PM »

I've owned a couple of these, but with stradella basses and also two corsos, b/c and c/c+, both with 8 button old style basses.
despite being a bigger box than the two voice, the treble buttons are slightly closer spaced...probably not a problem for most, but a minor consideration.
the corso in c/c+ was a beauty in terms of reed response and sweet tremolo. always thought these three voices would make great c+/d or d/d+ boxes.
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Bill Young

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Re: Hohner Double-Ray De Luxe......Information sought.
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2013, 06:33:42 PM »

According to this (incomplete) list of Hohner models from 2006, the rounded body Corso model (same shape as Double Ray Deluxe) was introduced in 1956. The similar rounded body Corona, and the Erica, are shown as starting in 1955.

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Re: Hohner Double-Ray De Luxe......Information sought.
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2013, 06:45:13 PM »

As you say Bill, that list is incomplete, so we can say that those models were introduced no later than those dates, and I'm sure, just from the sort of designs they are, that they are an example of post war "modernisation".
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Theo Gibb

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Re: Hohner Double-Ray De Luxe......Information sought.
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2013, 09:13:26 AM »

Indeed I have just converted a later red Corso to C#D for a customer in Ireland. He is very pleased with the result.
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Theo Gibb

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Theo

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Re: Hohner Double-Ray De Luxe......Information sought.
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2013, 09:37:53 AM »

It started off as a CC# so I used the C# set plus one extra at the top and added a full set of reeds for the D row. 
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maisie-bc

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Re: Hohner Double-Ray De Luxe......Information sought.
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2014, 05:12:16 PM »

I inherited a grey perloid Double-Ray De Luxe from my Irish grandad.  It has the old bass layout, but I don't think he ever used the basses. I have the original receipt and it cost the princely sum of £8/8/0 in 1937!  (I wonder how much a weekly wage was for a tailor in 1937.)

It hadn't been played for at least 30 years but I had it fixed and tuned by Martyn White and it sounds great.
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Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Hohner Double-Ray De Luxe......Information sought.
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2014, 12:30:28 PM »

I inherited a grey perloid Double-Ray De Luxe from my Irish grandad.  It has the old bass layout, but I don't think he ever used the basses. I have the original receipt and it cost the princely sum of £8/8/0 in 1937!  (I wonder how much a weekly wage was for a tailor in 1937.)

It hadn't been played for at least 30 years but I had it fixed and tuned by Martyn White and it sounds great.

Well Maisie, great that you have the box AND restored by the great Martyn White.
The average wage in 1937 is estimated at £201.60. Per annum
 Average wage in my experience was always more than I earned. So I imagine a tailor  didn't quite make that. I'll let the clever bods on the forum do the maths as to how much per week people earned.
 ;D
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pgroff

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Re: Hohner Double-Ray De Luxe......Information sought.
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2014, 01:58:34 AM »

I inherited a grey perloid Double-Ray De Luxe from my Irish grandad.  It has the old bass layout, but I don't think he ever used the basses. I have the original receipt and it cost the princely sum of £8/8/0 in 1937!....

That's interesting!
I am guessing that it is a different model to mine?
Do you know where he bought it? Was it in Ireland or the UK?
Is it a B/C?
I would love to see a photo.

Until maisie-bc can take and post a photo of hers, I wonder if hers might be this type, that's in a well-known restorer's queue:

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pgroff

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Re: Hohner Double-Ray De Luxe......Information sought.
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2014, 03:02:16 AM »

Hi aradru,

So far I haven't seen the box shown just above, "in the celluloid," but 1) I would say most of the buttons are original, the genuine pearl type seen on some high quality 1930s Hohner boxes, 2) I agree the "black dot" button does look odd, maybe was replaced or someone tried to smooth out a pearl button that was originally checkered.  I have an option on this one when it's ready.  Not exactly double-ray deluxes, here are two more Hohner B/C boxes from the 1930s, a very small original 3-voice built in the size of case usually used for a 2-voice box, and a 4-voice that's similar to the DR deluxe above (but larger I think than that DR deluxe).  I thought I posted these already but can't find them in this thread.  The 3-voice has had its bellows replaced unfortunately.  The 4 voice has those pearl buttons I mentioned (23 melody keys).

PG
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 03:12:05 AM by pgroff »
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pgroff

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Re: Hohner Double-Ray De Luxe......Information sought.
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2014, 03:44:49 AM »

.....  a 4-voice that's similar to the DR deluxe above (but larger I think than that DR deluxe).....

Hi Paul. Does the 4-voice have a switch mechanism behind the keyboard?

Hi aradru,

Yes, a swiveling lever to take out the L reeds, just as found on some of the 1930s Hohner clubs built on a similar body size.  The 4 voice LMMM 23-key  B/C grey 1930s Hohner seems to be an uncommon model. It lacks any "Double Ray" lettering and I haven't seen it catalogued.  Thanks to Theo Gibb for locating this one and restoring it.

PG
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