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Author Topic: Ultimate melodeon  (Read 10622 times)

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Nick Hudis

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Ultimate melodeon
« on: February 15, 2009, 06:13:26 PM »

I got to thinking about this the other day.  What is the ultimate melodeon?  Of course everyone will have a different view, but here are three suggestions:

The 4stop 1 row.  I once heard Ress describe this as the ultimate melodeon.  Its the formula 1 racing car of boxes: stripped down to the bare essentials, loud, fast, brash even, and not too easy to control.

The "Pokerwork"  or indeed any two row, two voice 5th or semitoned tuned.  This is the ultimate melodeon in terms of sheer numbers.  Think of this as the family saloon car of boxes.  Simple, practical, adaptable, easy to play, go anywhere, affordable (maybe?), the bedrock of countless morris meets, ceilidhs and sessions.

The Big Box  Here we are talking Castagnari Handry, Shand Morino etc.  The Rolls Royce of boxes.  multiple rows (I notice the Marc Perrone manages to get 4 rows on his Handry, and even from a wheelchair handles it as if it were a toy), seried ranks of basses, every possible combination of couplers and the finest reeds, the finest craftsmanship, unimaginable cost.  A thing of beauty to be admired, but would you take it to do the weekly shop at Tescos?

So folks, whats your ultimate expression of the melodeon/diatonic accordion.

Just for the record, I'm a Big Box man. 
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Nick

wildman

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Re: Ultimate melodeon
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2009, 06:44:12 PM »

one I can just pick up and play, oh yes and can afford as well. ;D ;D ;D
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Roger of Ilfracombe
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melodeon

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Re: Ultimate melodeon
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2009, 04:28:06 AM »

All the above   
However I prefer unpretentious , simple boxes such as the Hohner  114   one row and poker work 2 rows. 
« Last Edit: February 17, 2009, 11:27:43 PM by melodeon »
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finnhorse

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Re: Ultimate melodeon
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2009, 04:42:37 AM »

My ultimate box would have more bass possibilities..  Specifically, I wish the old Club boxes were built with 12 basses along 2 rows, allowing the player to choose either more typical diatonic style play, or to play more along the lines of the 'Club method.' 

Something else I think is nice: a 3-voice, 2-row box, with 23 treble and 12 basses (I think PS made these?  Can't remember if they were 2 or 4 voice?  Also the Saltarelle Atalante, I've never played one but 3 voices and 25/14 sounds like it would do the trick.  Or a 3-voice, 3-row, 34 treble button box with Stradella bass.  I think Hohner made something like this, but it's possible by switching ends.  One of these days I'll just rewire and learn B/C/C#.

Having gone this far, I have to say it's refreshing to play along the G row on my G/C and accompany only with the G and D bass/chords.  Gives the tunes a wholly different feel than when playing more 'melodic' bass to accompany the C row inside-out.

So how about a 6-voice, 1-row MMMMMM in three different keys?  ;D  Someone must have messed around with that idea.  More trouble than it's worth?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 07:33:50 AM by finnhorse »
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Malcolm Austen

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Re: Ultimate melodeon
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2009, 12:12:19 PM »

I would love the one like I hear other people playing, you know the one that doesn't make all the mistakes.
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waltzman

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Re: Ultimate melodeon
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2009, 01:06:35 PM »

My ultimate box would have more bass possibilities..  Specifically, I wish the old Club boxes were built with 12 basses along 2 rows, allowing the player to choose either more typical diatonic style play, or to play more along the lines of the 'Club method.' 

Something else I think is nice: a 3-voice, 2-row box, with 23 treble and 12 basses (I think PS made these?  Can't remember if they were 2 or 4 voice?  Also the Saltarelle Atalante, I've never played one but 3 voices and 25/14 sounds like it would do the trick.  Or a 3-voice, 3-row, 34 treble button box with Stradella bass.  I think Hohner made something like this, but it's possible by switching ends.  One of these days I'll just rewire and learn B/C/C#.

Having gone this far, I have to say it's refreshing to play along the G row on my G/C and accompany only with the G and D bass/chords.  Gives the tunes a wholly different feel than when playing more 'melodic' bass to accompany the C row inside-out.

So how about a 6-voice, 1-row MMMMMM in three different keys?  ;D  Someone must have messed around with that idea.  More trouble than it's worth?
How would you characterize the difference between typical diatonc style and 'club method' style. 
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waldoB

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Re: Ultimate melodeon
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2009, 02:03:10 PM »

My ultimate box would have more bass possibilities..  Specifically, I wish the old Club boxes were built with 12 basses along 2 rows, allowing the player to choose either more typical diatonic style play, or to play more along the lines of the 'Club method.' 

Something else I think is nice: a 3-voice, 2-row box, with 23 treble and 12 basses (I think PS made these?  Can't remember if they were 2 or 4 voice?  Also the Saltarelle Atalante, I've never played one but 3 voices and 25/14 sounds like it would do the trick.  Or a 3-voice, 3-row, 34 treble button box with Stradella bass.  I think Hohner made something like this, but it's possible by switching ends.  One of these days I'll just rewire and learn B/C/C#.

Having gone this far, I have to say it's refreshing to play along the G row on my G/C and accompany only with the G and D bass/chords.  Gives the tunes a wholly different feel than when playing more 'melodic' bass to accompany the C row inside-out.

So how about a 6-voice, 1-row MMMMMM in three different keys?  ;D  Someone must have messed around with that idea.  More trouble than it's worth?
How would you characterize the difference between typical diatonc style and 'club method' style. 
Start with a 1 row Hohner in G, then a D/G Pokerwork, a C/F then for songs, one row 4 stop in C ,then a better 3 voice D/G ( great ). Friends play Klezma & Gypsy etc. so after long search a B,C,C# 60 bass then another with 48. The D/G's are short on reversal D&E's - B,C,C# has only G's push & D's & A's pull  on the treble end, melodic bass is great fun. All the the different systems are great, just different. Such a large range with so few buttons. After a little while the apparent shortcomings seem to disappear, most of the time.  By the way I didn't read George Garside's thread on the B,C,C# until sometime after I had started playing it, his experiences were exactly the same as mine. There is a DG Club with 48 bass and a BC also with 48 bass on Accordions of London's site. I've not seen a B,C,C# CLUB yet (treble chords ?)
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tiny

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Re: Ultimate melodeon
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2009, 07:01:16 PM »

sometimes I don't really have a clue what everyone is talking about although I probably should.
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lizzy in Hoppicking Herefordshire

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Mike Gott

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Re: Ultimate melodeon
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2009, 07:08:54 PM »

I think it could be the one my wife bought for me in Manchester on Valentine's day. I row, seven buttons and, er, pink.....

I had to lengthen the straps before I cold play it, mind, but it actually plays quite well for a melodeon made in China for kids! Inside it's actually made of wood and covered in pearloid (I's always assumed that they were just plastic) and even has removable reed blocks. I can feel some "tweaks" coming on.....

Mike

PS - for me, the real ultimate has to be an old 1-row 4-stop Hohner. I'm not bothered about expensive hand made Italian boxes, pretty as they are. An old 1-row just has a sort of credibility, and that 4-reed noise makes the hairs on the back of my kneck stand on end. Or would, if I still had any.......

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finnhorse

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Re: Ultimate melodeon
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2009, 09:14:26 PM »

My ultimate box would have more bass possibilities..  Specifically, I wish the old Club boxes were built with 12 basses along 2 rows, allowing the player to choose either more typical diatonic style play, or to play more along the lines of the 'Club method.' 

Something else I think is nice: a 3-voice, 2-row box, with 23 treble and 12 basses (I think PS made these?  Can't remember if they were 2 or 4 voice?  Also the Saltarelle Atalante, I've never played one but 3 voices and 25/14 sounds like it would do the trick.  Or a 3-voice, 3-row, 34 treble button box with Stradella bass.  I think Hohner made something like this, but it's possible by switching ends.  One of these days I'll just rewire and learn B/C/C#.

Having gone this far, I have to say it's refreshing to play along the G row on my G/C and accompany only with the G and D bass/chords.  Gives the tunes a wholly different feel than when playing more 'melodic' bass to accompany the C row inside-out.

So how about a 6-voice, 1-row MMMMMM in three different keys?  ;D  Someone must have messed around with that idea.  More trouble than it's worth?
How would you characterize the difference between typical diatonc style and 'club method' style. 

By more 'typical diatonic' play (techinically, I know this is a lousy way to describe what I mean) I mean more like how you would play along the row on a single row box, or even a 2-row box with very limited crossing over, choosing lots of bellows reversals.  Bass accompaniment would be limited to one or two sets of bass buttons, or melodic bass accompaniment with the extra 'melodeon basses.'

'Club method' I mean how a Club box was meant to be played, using the gleichton key on the inside row, playing in keys outside the home rows, inherently much more crossing over, using the half row, and using the original Club bass buttons.  I don't understand how Hohner came up with such a brilliant system and didn't think that the player would need more basses.  Seems that they put one foot in the direction of "chromasticity" (B-side to "Synchronicity?"  ;D) and then had a sit down before finishing the job.

On the other hand, Club system is still alive and kicking with few modifications so this is probably all rubbish.  But I thought I'd like the best of both worlds in a Club box.
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Accordion Dave

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Re: Ultimate melodeon
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2009, 12:00:16 AM »

A piano accordion with musette tuning on the treble side and deep helikon bass reeds on the Stradella bass side. In other words the ultimate would be a piano accordion that sounds like a Steirische Harmonika. I got to play one, custom-made by the Schmidt company in Austria. 
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Ebor_fiddler

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Re: Ultimate melodeon
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2009, 10:14:01 PM »

Ultimate Box? Any one that will do all the work for me. A psychic box that will read my mind and play all the notes I intend to play, rather than the ones my fingers want to play!
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I'm a Yorkie!
My other melodeon's a fiddle, but one of my Hohners has six strings! I also play a very red Hawkins Bazaar in C and a generic Klingenthaler spoon bass in F.!! My other pets (played) are gobirons - Hohner Marine Band in C, Hohner Tremolo in D and a Chinese Thingy Tremolo in G.

Nick Hudis

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Re: Ultimate melodeon
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2009, 01:15:16 PM »

I guess that when I started this thread the thought that was in my mind is that I am wavering about placing an order for a 3 row eighteen bass diatonic accordion.  Despite the weight, such an instrument would suit the way my musical imagination works.  Yet there is always the nagging doubt in my mind that maybe I'd be better off with a small CBA or PA.  Saltarelle and Castagnari both sell such instruments.

But whenever I play a piano accordion it feels like cheating.  Its so easy!  You just squeeze the bellows and play the notes.  PAs and CBAs compared to diatonics, are like powered ships compared to sailing ships.  They are efficient but they lack soul and to some extend craftmanship.  Just like a sailing ship, a diatonic requires skill and sensitivity to transcend its limitations.  Working a complex tune with interesting harmonies on a diatonic has much of the same satisfaction for me as tacking a sailing boat through a narrow tidal water, or pushing a difficult route across a trackless mountain rather than following the footpath.

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jonm

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Re: Ultimate melodeon
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2009, 02:48:50 PM »

What a lovely post, which so neatly sums up my feelings.

I've been playing piano accordion for 25 years plus and do it well, although I say so myself. If find I get bored with tunes quickly and start mucking about with harmonies on the melody and hand and playing parts of the tune or a countermelody on the basses. I took up the concertina (english) some years ago and have reached the same point. There comes a time when you suddenly realise you've been playing a tune in G, then the same tune with an accompaiment in Eminor-ish, then dropped the whole thing into Gminor with a time signature change, just to keep yourself amused!

The melodeon, which I've been playing now for about six weeks, is an intellectual challenge and an opportunity to revisit harmonies and tune structures with the instrument's limitations. I've rediscovered the virtue of "simple" in some cases.

I think I'm actually going to have to buy one of my own before the thing comes out to play for the Morris, simply because I'm playing a borrowed Erica upside-down and struggling to reach the air button at times. I know modifications are possible but it's not my box.
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Castagnari Mory and Giordy D/G, Hohner Erica, four-stop in G, two-stop in G

Stiamh

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Re: Ultimate melodeon
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2009, 03:18:27 PM »

I rather like suffolkboy's comparison too. But I think that an 18-bass 3-row diatonic is getting close to a ship with sails _and_ a steam engine.

My ideal is something about the size and weight of an Erica / Black Dot but with 12 basses and a more precise action, made by a craftsman I can talk to. Hoping the Gaillard I have ordered will do the trick. He lives down the road from my mother in law after all. I'd have liked an longer inside row (10/11) (not to mention a shorter wait) but reckon you can't have absolutely everything you want - or you'd never buy another box and that would be (in Lord Denning's words) an "appalling vista."

jonm

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Re: Ultimate melodeon
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2009, 09:38:13 PM »

As an aside, why do they not make three-rows in DGC? For English players, that would give the whole scale of G in either direction.....
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Castagnari Mory and Giordy D/G, Hohner Erica, four-stop in G, two-stop in G

rees

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Re: Ultimate melodeon
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2009, 09:47:58 PM »

The C row would be very high and squeaky.
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Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
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finnhorse

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Re: Ultimate melodeon
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2009, 10:09:25 PM »

The C row would be very high and squeaky.

Multipurpose melodeon for frightening away stray dogs.. might also reduce my car insurance if I mounted it on the front bumper of the car!   :D 

Although a low D row is an interesting concept...
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george garside

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Re: Ultimate melodeon
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2009, 10:33:22 PM »

As an aside, why do they not make three-rows in DGC? For English players, that would give the whole scale of G in either direction.....

if you want the whole scal in G ( or whatever) in either direction  you might just as well buy a piano or continental chromatic accordion - surely the whole point of a 'sook and blaw' box is that you have to do just that!

george
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Bob Ellis

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Re: Ultimate melodeon
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2009, 12:34:58 AM »

Quote
As an aside, why do they not make three-rows in DGC? For English players, that would give the whole scale of G in either direction.....

In my opinion, a better solution is to have a G/D box with a row of accidental that includes C, C#, D and E in the opposite direction plus a range of the most useful accidentals, such as F, Bb, Eb and G#. I converted a box to this system about three years ago and now have two such boxes - one of the best things I ever did!
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Bob in beautiful Wensleydale, Les Panards Dansants, Crook Morris and the Loose Knit Band.
Clément Guais 3-row D/G/acc.; Castagnari 1914 D/G; Karntnerland Steirische 3-row G/C/F; Ellis Pariselle 2.6-row D/G/acc.; Gabbanelli Compact 2-row D/G with lots of bling, pre-war Hohner Bb/F; Acadian one-row in D.
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