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Author Topic: Advanced tutor?  (Read 5791 times)

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Thrupenny Bit

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Advanced tutor?
« on: December 28, 2013, 08:04:05 PM »

Hi all,
I'm wondering if there's such a thing as an advanced tutor, D/G based, to help improve my right hand melody accompaniment.
Does such a thing exist, or is this the realms of workshops held by the melodeon gods?

I'm messing whilst learning Kristjani Reilender, in the key of D, and have started to experiment at the moments of emphasis.
When emphasising the melody note A, I'm also holding down a D and F# together  making a chord of A instead of just the note
Playing an F# I'm holding down D and B as well
For an E I'm holding a C# and A as well
I.e. Using the melody note requiring emphasis as part of a simple chord or inversion with the melody note as the top of the three notes played.

Does this make any sense?
Any advice about simple accompaniment or advice for a tutor covering such things?
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Lester

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Re: Advanced tutor?
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2013, 08:08:11 PM »

Quote
When emphasising the melody note A, I'm also holding down a D and F# together  making a chord of A instead of just the note

A, D & F# is a chord of D not A (A, C# & E)

Pete Dunk

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Re: Advanced tutor?
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2013, 08:09:26 PM »

I think Squeezy's DVD is classed as Intermediate, i.e. not for complete beginners. Whether that goes as as far as you want/need is another matter!
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Steve C.

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Re: Advanced tutor?
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2013, 08:40:10 PM »

Though I myself am still firmly in volume I, volume II of M-P has a nice section on right hand chords, where I have occasionally snuck a look......
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Advanced tutor?
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2013, 09:04:28 PM »

Arghh.... Yes Lester, that's what I meant, just had a senior moment! Sorry.

Hmmmm ok, thanks tallship, I'll take a look.
Q
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george garside

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Re: Advanced tutor?
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2013, 10:57:43 PM »

There is nothing particularly advanced about rooting out right hand chords on a DG box and absolutely no musical theory is required.  It is not even necessary to know the names of the chords played.

 The legendary Tony Hall in a workshop many years ago described it thus, or in words to that effect!:

stop on any note of a tune and hold that note i.e. continue the bellows movement.  --- poke about with a spare finger until you find another note that sounds nice with it and hold the 2 notes -- then poke around again until you find a 3rd note that goes well with the other 2 - then remember that combination for further use!

Brilliantly simple and has worked very well for me  for the past thirty years or so and for the many I have passed it on to.

If on the other hand you want to get technical about it a keyboard chart in conjuction with a standard book of chords  ( I have one listing 360 piano chords)  can be gone through laboriously to establish which of them you have the wherewithal for!    I much prefer and recommend the poking around method!

george

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YorkieKen

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Re: Advanced tutor?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2013, 11:10:02 PM »

That's exactly the method I use George, works every time, and makes tunes much more interesting to play and sound better too, well I think so  ;)
Ken
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Re: Advanced tutor?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2013, 09:15:05 AM »

What George has already said about the Tony Hall 'method' is good, and something which I try to aspire to, at least in part. Right-hand chords are useful things to slip in to your playing, although you don't have to use them all the time; when you need emphasis or other effect is good.

I would guess that you are already at the stage where you are developing your own individual style (whether consciously or not). So  listen to as many different people playing as possible - live or in recordings, and extract what you can for your own needs. But also experiment: make stuff up yourself - if it sounds OK that's fine. The melodeon is extraordinarily good at being able to double or add to the RH melody with chords in thirds, fifths, sixths or octaves, depending on the bellows directions and whether you are finding chords on just one row or perhaps two rows at once.

Tony Hall has already been mentioned. I was also add the playing of (a) Jeannie Harris who does wonderful stuff on a plain simple Hohner 1-row 4-stop. Not many recordings of her playing unfortunately, but she does feature with Katie Howson on the CD 'Unbuttoned' (Old Hat Music OH4CD) available from Veteran Music. Jeannie's one-row playing is extraordinarily rich largely due to her accomplished RH style. She is adept at playing a melody using her little (4th) finger in the upper part of the keyboard whilst using fingers 1, 2 and 3 to play counter-melodies based on chords and arpeggios nearer the chin end of the instrument. Wonderful stuff!

For my (b) choice, I would recommend watching/listening to Karin Seyringer playing the steirische Harmonika.
See here and her other related recordings.
Watch how she uses RH chord finger patterns to constantly play the melody in thirds and sixths, so typical of Tyrolean/Austrian/south German music. Yes it's a big instrument with 4 rows, but a lot of it can be done on just two rows.

The technique, once learned, is a transferable skill which can be used (perhaps more sparingly) for English and other music styles.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Advanced tutor?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2013, 09:32:24 AM »

George that sounds sensible!
It's what I was doing yesterday, then realised I was making root + 3rd +5th chords in various combinations.
 It sounds like I was thinking too hard  ;D
Ok, will have another go in a bit and now feel more comfortable about rooting round the keyboard.

Ahh..... Steve's joined in. Yes, it all kicked off by listening again to ukebert's wonderful version of the tune I was trying to learn. I'd given it a cursory listen to help get the dots right then spent a few days learning it. I took another look and then realised what a wonderful bit of playing it was. Great to listen to and inspirational, hence me experimenting and starting this thread.
I made some earlier simple attempts in other tunes listening to JK on a couple of tunes in his English Choice tune book and cd, as you say Steve, I feel like I need to develop it a bit.
I have also realised the tune needs to be 'right' to allow the pause for the chance to add emphasis so i do realise you need to use sparingly.
Thanks chaps, off to have a good poke around the keyboard and will listen to the clip mentioned.
Cheers
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Anahata

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Re: Advanced tutor?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2013, 09:45:45 AM »

I have thirds and sixths pretty well automatic on a one row now.
Also shapes for three chord trick and more.

Karin's box is not only four rows, but it has a gleichton on the inner three rows, which makes RH dominant and dominant 7th chords easy. But anyway she's a terrific player and worth watching ("Karin S" on YouTube) and Steve is of course right that RH chords are very much part of that style.

I like Tony Hall's advice as reported. The words "sounds nice" are the key to this approach. You can have a whole library of music theory in your head, but if you haven't the ability to tell when a harmony sounds right, it's no help, and if you have... you don't need any theory.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Advanced tutor?
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2013, 09:58:15 AM »

Just listening to Karin as this popped in from Anahata.
I find her playing mesmerising, plus that box!!!!! I keep having an image of a huge American truck in my head with all the horns and chrome ;D
When I concentrate on her right hand, yes quite brilliant.

Again thanks for the advice Anahata, 'sounds nice' seems to be the key. I was worried I was doing something illegal on the box ( not that it was that bad, just wasn't sure of the rules! ) but...... I really was thinking too hard.
must be hyper on the Christmas choc's  :D
Right....off to listen to Karin again!
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Advanced tutor?
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2013, 10:18:09 AM »

....and another lesson to be learned is the attack she has in her right hand.
i.e. punctuating phrases by playing as though the keys are red hot, so letting go the buttons quickly.
Some tracks ( most! ) are simply stunning. The speed of 4 finger chords and more fliying over a 4 row 'articulated lorry' is simply jaw dropping.
There's a lot going on in her playing to be inspired by..............
Thanks Steve for the nudge.
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I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

oggiesnr

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Re: Advanced tutor?
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2013, 10:26:15 AM »

A word of caution.  It is very easy to go overboard on right hand chords and harmonies (been there, got the T-shirt) and forget that there's a tune in there as well.  On a piano it's easier to emphasize the melody amongst the notes by using finger strength, not so an a melodeon.

The fact that you can do it doesn't mean that you always should :)  Tunes need space to be able to breathe.

Steve
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Re: Advanced tutor?
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2013, 10:40:16 AM »

A word of caution.  It is very easy to go overboard on right hand chords and harmonies (been there, got the T-shirt) and forget that there's a tune in there as well.  ....

The fact that you can do it doesn't mean that you always should :)  Tunes need space to be able to breathe.

Steve
Good points well made, Steve. I was hinting at that in my post too.

Quote
On a piano it's easier to emphasize the melody amongst the notes by using finger strength, not so an a melodeon.
Jeannie Harris manages to do this by playing the melody in a sustained manner using her little finger, but adds arppegios/counter melody in a more detached staccato style with her other RH fingers.
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george garside

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Re: Advanced tutor?
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2013, 10:53:58 AM »

Quote from: Thrupenny Bit link= . I was worried I was doing something illegal on the box must be hyper on  ain!
Q
[/quote

if it '' sounds nice''  and  a member of the 'melodeon police' tells you you are doing it wrong or illegally or whatever I would humbly suggest that you tell them to urinate  elsewhere or otherwise go away!

george ;)
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Lester

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Re: Advanced tutor?
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2013, 11:02:26 AM »

Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Advanced tutor?
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2013, 11:35:46 AM »

oggiesnr and steve, yes I know what you mean.
I fully agree with the fact that 'tunes should breath' and also along similar lines, it's as important to 'play' the spaces in between notes as to actually play the notes.
Totally agree.

George:  ;D
thank you kind sir for that piece of advice I will remember it and produce it if necessary!

Lester: Wot me officer? surely not officer......   ::)

thanks all
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Anahata

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Re: Advanced tutor?
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2013, 11:54:13 AM »

There's a lot going on in her playing to be inspired by..............

For me it's the musical expression carried by her dynamics and timing. Most Steirische players sound like machines. Herbert Pixner is another notable exception.
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Re: Advanced tutor?
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2013, 01:17:35 PM »

Did Lester get photoshop for Xmas ? ;D

I think there is a teeny weeny chance of this thread getting bogged down in what is and isn't right on the melodeon which I think we all know never ends well here! 

One of the joys of the melodeon is that it hasn't been completely tamed by the rigours of formalised rules such as that adopted in the classical teaching world.  The very nature of the quint box system with it's duplicated notes and non-standardised keyboard layouts would make any attempt at formalising how to play it also remove some of it's potential creativity.

Unfortunately I suspect that is why there is no Advanced tutor on the market that I know of. 

The best answer has already been given - even in the original post.  And that is a mixture of trying to mimic things which you enjoy in the playing of others, mixed with sheer uninhibited experimentation.  Thank goodness for this place and YouTube!

My intermediate DVD was designed to be far more vague than a formal tutor (not selling it well am I?  :D).  What I'm trying to say is that it's aimed at people who can already play the tunes to a fair standard, and instead of trying to improve playing by imposing rigour in a particular direction it attempts to inspire experimentation by suggesting several directions to take using very simple melodies as a basis.

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Anahata

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Re: Advanced tutor?
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2013, 01:50:32 PM »

Thank goodness for this place and YouTube!

Too modest by far. Shouldn't we be thanking some guy called John Spiers for "this place"? (sorry you can't claim credit for inventing YouTube too)

Also, talking of tutors, John Kirkpatricks's video set is pretty comprehensive.
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