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Author Topic: 2 reed 1 row Boxes  (Read 5763 times)

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melodeon

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2 reed 1 row Boxes
« on: February 18, 2009, 05:55:58 AM »

For those of you who have played or own 2 reed 1 row boxes, specifically Quebec made such as Melodie and Messervier,  can you tell me anything about them

I am interested in the construction, with or without stops, reed configuration, playabilty, tone, size ( ie smaller or same size as 4 reed)
volume , any quirky details etc

Thanks
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melodeon

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Re: 2 reed 1 row Boxes
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2009, 03:53:38 PM »

I wasn't aware that there was such a vast knowledge base about these.

Thanks
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Andy in Vermont

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Re: 2 reed 1 row Boxes
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2009, 11:44:15 PM »

I wasn't aware that there was such a vast knowledge base about these.

I've told you tons about my experience with these boxes -- if you're goin' senile, let me know and maybe I can scrounge up some archived writings.
-Andy

BruceHenderson

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Re: 2 reed 1 row Boxes
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2009, 10:40:07 PM »

For those of you who have played or own 2 reed 1 row boxes, specifically Quebec made such as Melodie and Messervier,  can you tell me anything about them (snip) 

   Hi, Jeff.  I'm not sure that I'm the right guy to talk (I've never owned one but I got a chance play one for a good bit of an evening a couple of years ago).  Sebastien Dionne (pardon if the spelling is incorrect but that's close) taught accordeon at Northern Week at Ashokan a couple of years ago.  He had found a two-stop (two reed) Messervier which he thought was from the very first years that Messervier made boxes in the early 70's - he'd been especially looking for one for his wife, basically trying to find a lighter box that didn't require moving so much air.

   I don't have a lot of experience with Messervier's modern 4-reed boxes but this was one sweet instrument to play.  If you didn't spread the bellows out too much, it would speak as quickly as any instrument I've ever played (even quicker than my Benny) and the tone was totally sweet.  (It had been purchased new by an owner who played it a bit and then lost interest and his wife was selling it off after he died so I'm not sure how much work it needed/got after Sebastien got it).  I found it interesting the I couldn't imagine playing it only one reed set sounding but Messervier had built it with both "stops" working -- at the time, I think that he was adamant that it was better to have no switchable stops because he thought that the reeds sounded better without the mechanism between the reeds and the outside (maybe he built this box before he became so adamant about the deletion of the slides/stops).

   Of course, it sounded like a two-reed box with both reeds on the same octave and that's a lot different from a four-reed box that covers three octaves, but for what it was it was totally sweet and fast as lightening. 

   I don't know if M. Oullette has ever made a two-reed box (I would guess that he has but that would only be a guess and I've never heard of one or seen one).  But I was convinced that this Messervier box was a find!
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melodeon

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Re: 2 reed 1 row Boxes
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2009, 01:26:44 AM »

Thanks Bruce
Am I to infer Messervier's current boxes have INoperative stops ?


Andy,
Not senile....  just can't remember much
No recollection of 2 reed  disscussions...
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BruceHenderson

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Re: 2 reed 1 row Boxes
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2009, 06:33:42 PM »

Thanks Bruce
Am I to infer Messervier's current boxes have INoperative stops >?

   I'm not an expert on Messervier's boxes, Jeff, but most of them that I've seen (at least the 4-stoppers) have had inoperative stops.  The knobs are there as decoration or "handles" but I'm told by my Quebec friends that M. Messervier has long held the opinion that the reeds need to be as close to the sound board as possible and the mechanism of operating stops is a hindrance to this and the sounds suffers.

   It may be that his opinion has softened in recent years (which would be a first ... IYKWIM) but most (if not all) of the boxes he built in past years have had INoperative stops.

BH, NC USA
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ghijze mitter hacken

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Re: 2 reed 1 row Boxes
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2009, 07:24:48 PM »

There is a second reason for not using registers, the air inlets in the reed blocks can be made wider resulting in better responding reeds.
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melodeon

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Re: 2 reed 1 row Boxes
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2009, 01:45:48 AM »

Thanks
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Stiamh

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Re: 2 reed 1 row Boxes
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2009, 02:02:11 AM »

Am I to infer Messervier's current boxes have INoperative stops ?

I'm sure this is not the case - I'll find out within a couple of days and get back to you. He used to make four-voice boxes with TWO inoperative doorhandles on top - a local player I know has one. But a conversation I had with a knowledgeable player a while ago makes me think this cannot be the case any longer... said player was bemoaning the fact that MM insists on using wooden (rather than metal) sliders which, in the Quebec climate, inevitably warp and stick. Said player is of the firm opinion that MM is a stick-in-the-mud!

BruceHenderson

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Re: 2 reed 1 row Boxes
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2009, 01:02:17 PM »

  I'm sure this is not the case - I'll find out within a couple of days and get back to you. He used to make four-voice boxes with TWO inoperative doorhandles on top - a local player I know has one. But a conversation I had with a knowledgeable player a while ago makes me think this cannot be the case any longer... said player was bemoaning the fact that MM insists on using wooden (rather than metal) sliders which, in the Quebec climate, inevitably warp and stick.

   Yes, I had the impression (but not a firm fact that I could bet money on) that Messervier for a long time *preferred* to make the boxes without stops but if someone insisted, he would.  And my impression now is that his boxes are mostly with stops (working stops).

Quote
Said player is of the firm opinion that MM is a stick-in-the-mud!

   I don't get to spend nearly as much time in Quebec as I'd like but I've gotten to know quite a few people up there.  I don't know anyone who would strongly disagree with this.   ;)

BH  NC USA
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tirpous

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Re: 2 reed 1 row Boxes
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2009, 04:04:58 PM »

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Québécois

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Re: 2 reed 1 row Boxes
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2009, 04:23:16 PM »

The little no-name 2-voice no-stop box I acquired recently (and introduced in another thread) has flat reedblocks which certainly contribute to its responsiveness and loudness, since the reeds are placed directly under the air inlet ports.
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melodeon

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Re: 2 reed 1 row Boxes
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2009, 03:28:40 PM »

Again,

Thanks for the replies

I am curious about the Melodie  3 reed boxes... are they LMH   or LMM  or MMM

On the Messervier you just aquired... did you order this  or was it an "off the shelf" unit
of course his off the shelf boxes would be the same quality as custom ordered no doubt..

2 reed  no stoppers flat mounted... should be a real "cracker"

I am currently hot rodding my HA 112  in A  from late 50's   it has certainly seen some life...
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tirpous

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Re: 2 reed 1 row Boxes
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2009, 09:25:12 PM »

The Melodie 3-voices I've seen/tried were LMM.  They have an unusual reed layout that can be seen on this youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQglJZFjUsc .

The Messervier was made to order, but is a standard model.  There is a 16 month or so wait to get one, so I doubt they have any available off the shelf.  They're very nice accordions (well, of course, I would say so ;) ).

I like the HA 112.  Actually got started on one in G, and have an older one in D.  People keep commenting on how light they are.  What are you doing to yours ?
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melodeon

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Re: 2 reed 1 row Boxes
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2009, 02:17:33 AM »

Thanks for the Melodie and Messervier info.

I am "gutting" my  112.

I am removing the glued in reed block and doing some top secret  cosmic security clearance only "sound board"  mods.

I am   going to either off one of the stops  or both....  may make a reed change  but  not certain.  A is an unusual key for a 112  so might save it in A.  It would be a bit of work to fit other reeds as the blocks are quite tall..but doable

I will fit another keyboard

Possibly mess with the pallets .

Might mess with the bass....

It is such a funky old box it would be hard to do anything that would degrade it.
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Andy in Vermont

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Re: 2 reed 1 row Boxes
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2009, 01:46:45 PM »

The Melodie 3-voices I've seen/tried were LMM.  They have an unusual reed layout that can be seen on this youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQglJZFjUsc .

Québécois

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Re: 2 reed 1 row Boxes
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2009, 02:37:53 PM »

That would sound like Montmarquette allright! Almost all his recordings were made on a A box that sounded like MMH.
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tirpous

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Re: 2 reed 1 row Boxes
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2009, 06:11:46 PM »

Hi Andy,

They were all in D.  Other keys may well have a different reed arrangement, as you said.
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