Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: Why the "competition element", for example, within Irish box playing?  (Read 13725 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

EastAnglianTed

  • The wise wearer of the onesie
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 530
  • Castagnari Hascy-East Anglia for the win!
    • My Youtube account

    The "All Ireland Champion" is a very prestigious title, and I get the fact that they have won the 'big one' in the Fleadh Cheoil. But I can't help thinking, what's the point?I am not attacking the Fleadh Cheoil, Irish box playing blah blah blah, but it has me thinking that if everyone learnt to a style in order to fulfill criteria where's the fun in it?
    Maybe I'm being naive, but box playing to me has only ever been an open affair, where no one holds any superiority over another. It's a level playing field per se. Being a champion would decree that you have triumphed over others, effectively bettering their efforts. Does this competitive element breed contempt in the unsuccessful? Is it a stressful endevour to try to play to showcase technique? I don't know, maybe it's just some late night rambling but I would love to hear some opinions- or even set my thinking straight.

Edit: Late night musings, I mean this to be a primarily a discussion topic- I see no right or wrong standpoint. See further post from me as to why I say Irish box playing rather than any other.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 10:01:10 PM by EastAnglianTed »
Logged

Gary P Chapin

  • L'Accordéonaire
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1930
  • We are all the Free Reed Liberation Orchestra
    • l'Accordéonaire
Re: Why the "competition element" within Irish box playing?
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2014, 01:18:00 AM »

I admit I've sensed this "element" in irTrad playing, too.  Very often at sessions in the nineties I felt like everyone was trying to quantitatively improve their standing -- more tunes!  faster!  At the time Altan and Dervish and Solas were on the top o' the charts ... speed speed speed.

I know it's not all there was, but it was there ...
Logged
Read the l'Accordéonaire French music blog: http://accordeonaire.com/
The Bal Folk Tune Book Project: https://accordeonaire.com/bal-folk-tune-book-project/
The Free Reed Liberation Orchestra: https://accordeonaire.com/the-free-reed-liberation-orchestra/

TomB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 514
  • BCC#, Cairden BC Mini and lots of PA's
Re: Why the "competition element" within Irish box playing?
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2014, 01:35:59 AM »

Why not read what Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann have to say about it.
http://comhaltas.ie/
Logged

MatlockBather

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 131
  • B/C and proud
Re: Why the "competition element" within Irish box playing?
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2014, 08:23:56 AM »

Same reason my brother races mountain bikes and I just ride 'em...

I have tried racing but half way through I realised I couldn't be arsed/didn't want to race enough to allow myself to make it hurt and go faster so I pottered round, then got fed up with myself for turning up and not trying! My brother however can motivate himself to train hard, push himself till he throws up etc and all this despite 'only' being low in the top 10 county level and being told he will never be any better because his body doesn't have that special something that the elite level have.

Guess it boils down to some people are more competitive by nature and some arn't and that means that if they come second (and that might be second in the battle for 9th and 10th spot) then is will pi$$ them off but it is that feeling that motivates them to practice harder, longer etc. Even the so called non competitive people normally strive to get better, hence all the threads about technique, practice etc its just that you are the judge and not some panel. Ever hit a flat spot in your own progression or spent a long time trying to get a particular tune just so? It will be your competitive nature that kicks you on to keep trying.

These could be some morning ramblings though where writing them seems more attractive than doing work stuff!

Si
Logged

Boyen

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 126
  • C#/D DINNIII
Re: Why the "competition element" within Irish box playing?
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2014, 08:59:44 AM »

There are competitions and elections (award shows) for just about every genre that has a large enough following to organize the said competitions and selections. It's a bit oblivious to only account this to Irish Trad music on the box.
Logged

Chris Ryall

  • "doc 3-row"
  • French Interpreter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10169
  • Wirral UK
    • Chris Ryall
Re: Why the "competition element" within Irish box playing?
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2014, 09:00:22 AM »

Please can someone tell me that this prestigious title doesn't simply go to the "fastest" player :-\
Logged
  _       _    _      _ 

george garside

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5401
Re: Why the "competition element" within Irish box playing?
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2014, 10:02:19 AM »

can't remember the detail but some years ago I saw  a sheet of judges marking guidelines or whatever for the fleadh.  I was pleasantly surprised that  it stated that over ornamentation would be penalised and I think it also said something similar about over fast.

As to why the championships  I would say ''why not''   I have never been to one but from what I have seen those there anjoy themselves and there is a fair amount of 'fringe' playing going on so for many they are probably box festivals or maybe Irish music festivals.

The Scots also have both button box and piano acc championships  and the winners of both Scottish and Irish competitions are extremely good players.

 
Somehow can't imagine  something similar on the English Folk scene -  Highly practiced  high speed renditions of   winster gallop, salmon tails et al  with a bit of Cotswold stuff chucked in for good measure.  But then we have a myriad of ''folk festivals'' at which to get together and enjoy  playing and perhaps  seeing some of the top bods on stage!

george
Logged
author of DG tutor book "DG Melodeon a Crash Course for Beginners".

Mike Averill

  • suffering from MAD
  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 308
Re: Why the "competition element" within Irish box playing?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2014, 10:55:33 AM »

Competition is a good fun way of keeping the standards up, and gives beginners something to aspire to. 
Logged
Hohner - 1 row 4 stop C and G, pokerwork DG, DoubleRay DC#, Corso CC#, Corona III ADG, CLUB X CF, Elysium II CF
Saltarelle 1 row 4 stop D, Castagnari Giordy DG, Sander DG
Sonola CC#, Walters DC#

oggiesnr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 995
  • Dino BPII, Alfred Arnold Bandoneon, Loffet G/C
Re: Why the "competition element" within Irish box playing?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2014, 12:24:31 PM »

Same reason that the Scot's have piping championships, it gives you something to aspire to and a way of marking your progress.  I've visited competitions where competitors have been marked down for speed and the lack of accuracy that it caused. 

On a wider front it was also a means by which the tradition was preserved.  It's easy to imagine that ITM has always been strong but for many years it was a frowned upon backwater, a throw back to old days which was best ignored.  Comhaltas came into being in 1951 with the first fleadh held that year.  The competitions (and the courses) have been a major part in keeping alive the continuity of the tradition.

The TMSA do much the same job in Scotland.

For years now there have been debates about the attitude, the competitions and the relevance of both bodies but without them there would be a lot less music.

Steve
Logged

Gromit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 519
Re: Why the "competition element" within Irish box playing?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2014, 04:03:26 PM »

Here we go again , talk about flogging a dead horse!

Quote
Please can someone tell me that this prestigious title doesn't simply go to the "fastest" player

Yeh I'll tell you - no problem I like to help out if I can.
 
How about BBC radio 2 young folk musician of the year or whatever it's called - isn't that a competition?
Logged

rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4734
  • Windjammer
    • Wesson Accordions
Re: Why the "competition element" within Irish box playing?
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2014, 04:44:35 PM »

In Wales, we have many eisteddfods (eisteddfoddau) which are extremely competitive. It's a great way of getting folks (especially the younger ones) interested in not only trad. music but poetry, arts and crafts, etc.
Logged
Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
Gungrog, Welshpool, Wales, UK
www.melodeons.com

mory

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 752
Re: Why the "competition element" within Irish box playing?
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2014, 05:33:49 PM »

Because, whether we like it or not all life is competitive, even when it's dressed up in passivity, fact of life. All the Best mory
Logged

Ollie

  • Grumpy Young Git
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1900
    • Ollie King
Re: Why the "competition element" within Irish box playing?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2014, 05:37:15 PM »

Here we go again , talk about flogging a dead horse!

Quote
Please can someone tell me that this prestigious title doesn't simply go to the "fastest" player

Yeh I'll tell you - no problem I like to help out if I can.
 
How about BBC radio 2 young folk musician of the year or whatever it's called - isn't that a competition?

Yes, but that's considerably more subjective, and incorporates many different factors into its selection process, including things such as stage presence.

The problem I have with the Irish competitions is that whilst they are great for encouraging youngsters and it's great for the public profile of the music, is that they lead to homogenisation.

"The one thing that unites all traditional musicians is that they're all unique"
Logged
Hohner Erika 12 bass D/G : Hohner Erika Bb/Eb : Hohner 1 row 4 stop D : Hohner Erica 9 bass D/G :

http://www.olliekingmusic.com/

Free-Reed Specialist, Hobgoblin Leeds

Gromit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 519
Re: Why the "competition element" within Irish box playing?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2014, 06:00:52 PM »

Quote
The problem I have with the Irish competitions is that whilst they are great for encouraging youngsters and it's great for the public profile of the music, is that they lead to homogenisation.

"The one thing that unites all traditional musicians is that they're all unique"

It's a shame you feel that way - has it stopped you entering one? There are regional styles in Irish Trad as there probably are in English Trad - I would have thought the main reason for homogenisation (great word probably would upset some UKIP members though) would be youngsters wanting to sound like the recording artists/bands - Lunasa etc.
Logged

EastAnglianTed

  • The wise wearer of the onesie
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 530
  • Castagnari Hascy-East Anglia for the win!
    • My Youtube account
Re: Why the "competition element" within Irish box playing?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2014, 06:09:33 PM »

    I really am learning some stuff about something I didn't know that much about, cheers guys.
    George's comment about the rules is really interesting, that over ornamentation is penalised- I had absoloutely no idea of this. And Welsh competitions too, I had never heard of them.
    I suppose the "why not" aspect does go both ways, for and against.
    Ted
Logged

Theo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13727
  • Hohner Club Too
    • The Box Place
Re: Why the "competition element" within Irish box playing?
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2014, 06:13:37 PM »

Actually there are competitions in England for players of folk and traditional music.  Annual festivals at Rothbury, Morpeth and Alnwick all have classes for a wide range of instruments both solo and ensemble, composition, and singing and dialect prose and poetry.
Logged
Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

Proprietor of The Box Place for melodeon and concertina sales and service.
Follow me on Twitter and Facebook for stock updates.

Nick Collis Bird

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3785
  • Been squeezing melodeons for over 48 years (badly)
Re: Why the "competition element" within Irish box playing?
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2014, 06:18:15 PM »

Oh! For God's sake. I'm a bloody useless player, but I pick up that box and just enjoy myself. If it entertains others then that's a bonus.
Do I want to win a cup? Yes, but only if it's filled  with scotch.
 Just play and enjoy yourself.  >:(
Logged
Has anyone heard of the song. “ Broken Alarm-clock Blues” ? It starts   “I woke up this Afternoon”

Nick Collis Bird

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3785
  • Been squeezing melodeons for over 48 years (badly)
Re: Why the "competition element" within Irish box playing?
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2014, 06:41:47 PM »

When I first moved to London UK . My local pub was the Favourite in Queensland Road Holloway.
The resident band was the Jimmy Power Trio. Including Reg Hall and Paddy Mallyn.( brilliant button accordion player)
Every Sunday there were people from all over the world visiting.  Many times Jimmy would introduce the All Ireland Champion from this and that . Dancing, fiddle playing, step dancing. Etc.etc.
None of whom seemed to be all champions of anything.although very good.
   In those days pubs had to close at 2PM.on Sundays.
The finest moment was when the Chieftains turned up at 1.55.on Sunday, Jimmy Power said " No lads, you can't go on."
If you can't be bothered to turn up during normal opening hours, you can't play, now bugger off!!
 God, those were the days.  ???
Logged
Has anyone heard of the song. “ Broken Alarm-clock Blues” ? It starts   “I woke up this Afternoon”

EastAnglianTed

  • The wise wearer of the onesie
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 530
  • Castagnari Hascy-East Anglia for the win!
    • My Youtube account
Re: Why the "competition element" within Irish box playing?
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2014, 06:44:53 PM »

.
Do I want to win a cup? Yes, but only if it's filled  with scotch.
;D
Logged

Matthew B

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 872
Re: Why the "competition element" within Irish box playing?
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2014, 07:12:27 PM »

I'm not aware of any box competitions in this part of the world (Northern New England), but that may just be because I'm not paying attention.  However fiddling contests are serious stuff around here.  Rules are all laid down in that particular language that rule-writers seem to love.  Thus "Authenticity: The ability to play danceable music in a manner appropriate to the style of the music and in good taste. The fiddler should have a basic respect for the structure of the tune, and the tradition and style of the tune’s source."  This type of thing is not for me, even were such contests available for box-players.  However some of my fiddling friends are very keen competitors.  There sometimes seems to be a bit of badinage between the folks who have competed against each other, but I've not seen any ill-effects from this.  Some people like to compete, some don't.  Whatever any one individual's choice in this matter may be the net result is a large and thriving community of musicians.  And repairers, and violin-makers, and teachers . . . Which provides fertile ground for the people who take up the instrument and is, I think, a good thing.   
Logged
Charter Member Presumpscot and Fore River Accordion Club
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal