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[ladydetemps]

I play (in the loosest possible terms) a (relatively cheap) 30 button C/G anglo concertina. How easy is it to use the (few) skills I've got from that to the melodeon? And would you say its easier or harder to learn by ear on a melodeon?

[george garside]

I play (in the loosest possible terms) a (relatively cheap) 30 button C/G anglo concertina. How easy is it to use the (few) skills I've got from that to the melodeon? And would you say its easier or harder to learn by ear on a melodeon?

I did it the other way round i.e bought an anglo  & found it fairly esy to transfer skills.  Later tried an english and whilst I could get a tune or two out of it I never really got the hang of it.  You are either a push/pull person or not & if you are  the same basic skill & knowledge is useful for anything from an anglo concertina to a Shand Morino & everything in between whether it has 1,2 or 3 rows & whatever its tuned in.

As you are already playing the anglo you must be a push pull person.  There are some people who for some reason never get hte hang of  pushing & pulling for different notes & they are better off with english concertina or piano box.

george

[Stiamh]

1. How easy is it to use the (few) skills I've got from that to the melodeon?

If your skills are few, it shouldn't be hard to transfer them.    Why not just decide which instrument you want to play, get one, and learn it properly? 

2. And would you say its easier or harder to learn by ear on a melodeon?

[TomB-R]

If you're looking at playing the usual Britain and Ireland traditional music, predominantly in the keys of D & G, then whether you go for the ubiquitous D/G melodeon or Irish-ish B/C or C#/D, I reckon you'll find playing the D tunes a lot easier.    Playing in D on a C/G concertina has always looked a bit of a mind bender to me!
With the melodeon you've got those nice comforting bass buttons that do lots of stuff for one press, and then as far as the tune goes, you've only got one hand and 21 or so buttons to worry about, rather than two hands and 30 buttons!
Maybe I'm convincing even myself, but this is melodeon.net, not concertina.net.
(Though, of course, I do think that concertinas are wonderful little devices that do have a certain class about them that.......)

Take no notice, I'm mainly a fiddler.
Tom

[Lester]

You are either a push/pull person or not & if you are  the same basic skill & knowledge is useful for anything from an anglo concertina to a Shand Morino & everything in between whether it has 1,2 or 3 rows & whatever its tuned in.

As you are already playing the anglo you must be a push pull person.  There are some people who for some reason never get the hang of  pushing & pulling for different notes & they are better off with english concertina or piano box.

george

Not that I am one to disagree but as a melodeon and English Concertina player it is more than possible to play both. I played melodeon first but had no difficulty going to the English.

As to transferring skills I believe that most musical skills are transferable and the push/pull debate is one of mechanics. The English has taught me a lot of musical things that have transferred back to the melodeon that I am not sure I would have got too without the concertina.

YMMV

[HallelujahAl]

You are either a push/pull person or not

I'm sorry but this is a complete fallacy, I'm no John Kirkpatrick (who has absolutely no trouble switching between EC, Anglo/Melodeon in the same set) - but I started out on the EC and then the 2 row Melodeon - and I now also play the anglo. I just don't believe that we're either one or the other - it's simply (for me anyway) a matter of application.

It's actually no different to switching between a descant recorder, Bb clarinet and an Alto (Eb) Sax (all woodwind but in completely different keys with totally different ways of blowing & fingering) or put another way crossing between a ukulele, 5-string banjo and a guitar (all plucked/strummed string instruments but with completely different sets of chords and fingerings).

I do all of the above and - believe me - I'm no musical genius :)
AL

[Pete Dunk]

I'm an EC player who's gradually getting along with a D/G box and almost instinctively crossing the rows all of the time but I have to say I can't get along with an anglo concertina at all. To answer LDT's original question I don't think learning to play by ear is any easier on one instrument rather than another, it really is a case of familiarity with your chosen instrument and spotting patterns in music and that will come in time, it is in fact inevitable.

I do think that some instruments are far easier to pick up and feel your way around until you can knock out a tune and in this respect I think the melodeon is more intuitive than an anglo but that's a personal view.

As to the choice of a fourth apart box like a D/G or C/F etc or a semitone box in B/C or C/C# etc that's a tough call and I haven't had a go on a semitone box yet so can't offer advice here.

[Fidjit]

I find that they complement each other.
Some tunes are better on the Anglo than the Melodeon and visa versa.

Hey ! Have you tried singing yet ?

[ladydetemps]

I reckon you'll find playing the D tunes a lot easier.    Playing in D on a C/G concertina has always looked a bit of a mind bender to me!

Well a lot of tunes I like are apparently in 'D'. lol!

With the melodeon you've got those nice comforting bass buttons that do lots of stuff for one press, and then as far as the tune goes, you've only got one hand and 21 or so buttons to worry about, rather than two hands and 30 buttons!

I thought not having to split my mind equally between both sides might help.

Maybe I'm convincing even myself, but this is melodeon.net, not concertina.net.

I couldn't find a forum that combines the two.

You are either a push/pull person or not

I'm sorry but this is a complete fallacy, I'm no John Kirkpatrick (who has absolutely no trouble switching between EC, Anglo/Melodeon in the same set) - but I started out on the EC and then the 2 row Melodeon - and I now also play the anglo. I just don't believe that we're either one or the other - it's simply (for me anyway) a matter of application.

I can switch between different operating systems and machines when it comes to computers I work on both PC and Mac....which others find confusing. I suppose going between concertina and melodeon is like that?

I do think that some instruments are far easier to pick up and feel your way around until you can knock out a tune and in this respect I think the melodeon is more intuitive than an anglo but that's a personal view.

It looks ...more logical to me but untill I have a go I won't know.

I find that they complement each other.
Some tunes are better on the Anglo than the Melodeon and visa versa.

Hey ! Have you tried singing yet ?

I was going to have melodeon for folkie tunes and the concertina for more...pop tunes

Last time I tried singing I smashed all the glass in the house and was banned from ever singing aloud again.

[HallelujahAl]

I can switch between different operating systems and machines when it comes to computers I work on both PC and Mac....which others find confusing. I suppose going between concertina and melodeon is like that?

Exactly! You possibly will end up with a preference - but that's a different matter. One thing to think about are the musical possibilities. With Anglo & Melodeon you are restricted in terms of what keys you can play in, whereas English Concertina gives you the full range, especially if you simply want to accompany singing with chords - its a wonderful instrument!
AL

[Peter]

Hi LDT - it is you from concertina net I presume.

I find that if I can play a tune on my Anglo ALONG the rows it transfers easily to melodeon. Where I have a bit more difficulty is when I play ACROSS the rows (which is mostly), and the difference between CG & DG doesn't match.
I'm finding that I am selecting tunes which fit each instrument best (for me at least) and not playing then on the other instrument.

Regards

Peter

[ladydetemps]

Hi LDT - it is you from concertina net I presume.

yes its me :)

I find that if I can play a tune on my Anglo ALONG the rows it transfers easily to melodeon. Where I have a bit more difficulty is when I play ACROSS the rows (which is mostly), and the difference between CG & DG doesn't match.
I'm finding that I am selecting tunes which fit each instrument best (for me at least) and not playing then on the other instrument.

I tend to think of buttons individually like keys on a pc keyboard rather than rows and columns....which I suppose is wierd.

[Dazbo]

I started out on a cheap chinese 20 button anglo and enjoyed getting a tune out of it.  However, I wanted to play in an English style but could only find books on Irish.  However you could get English style melodeon tutors so I got a cheap chinese melodeon and Mally's book with an eye to transferring that knowledge back to the anglo.  Fortunately for the concertina world (or perhaps unfortunately!!) I fell in love with the melodeon from the first moment I got going and the Anglo never got a look in after.

I have since aquired a George Jones English concertina but haven't got very far with it, not because I can't cope with it not being push/pull but because I haven't had the time.

I think George is partly right in that some people just can't get push/pull instruments but there are many who can quite happily play both.  I think they just need to treat them as completely different instruments.  No one seems to bat an eyelid at someone who can play the flute and guitar for example.

Going back to LDT's original question I think there are definitely transferrable skills but I suspect that if she's mainly used to crossing the rows she'd be better off with a BC or BCC# than a GC or DG box if she wants to transfer as much skill as possible.

[waldoB]

I started out on a cheap chinese 20 button anglo and enjoyed getting a tune out of it.  However, I wanted to play in an English style but could only find books on Irish.  However you could get English style melodeon tutors so I got a cheap chinese melodeon and Mally's book with an eye to transferring that knowledge back to the anglo.  Fortunately for the concertina world (or perhaps unfortunately!!) I fell in love with the melodeon from the first moment I got going and the Anglo never got a look in after.

I have since aquired a George Jones English concertina but haven't got very far with it, not because I can't cope with it not being push/pull but because I haven't had the time.

I think George is partly right in that some people just can't get push/pull instruments but there are many who can quite happily play both.  I think they just need to treat them as completely different instruments.  No one seems to bat an eyelid at someone who can play the flute and guitar for example.

Going back to LDT's original question I think there are definitely transferrable skills but I suspect that if she's mainly used to crossing the rows she'd be better off with a BC or BCC# than a GC or DG box if she wants to transfer as much skill as possible.

Just to add to the confusion, I found a B,C,C# straightforward after a one row and then a D/G. After learning to reach towards the bellows for the C#row as well as away for the B row, using the C row as a starting point, things became clearer. All the same cross row maneouvres work on both systems, they just play different notes. George's previous comment on a previous thread about easier to read from music than with a D/G rang very true. I don't know why, and I'm not going to try and figure it out, but its no problem all to swap boxes . Just play lots of different tunes (not necessarily learning them ), try as many different fingerings as you can, the notes will lead your fingers.

[Doug Anderson]

After decades of struggling with fretted instruments I picked up an English concertina and was able to play simple tunes in C, G, D and F fairly quickly. That was almost ten years ago and I haven't progressed much past that point with the instrument. Four or five years ago I picked up a D/G melodeon and within a week I was playing simple tunes with chords. I believe that what I learned about bellows control from playing the EC helped. I subsequently switched to a G/C melodeon because I prefer the sound. I continue to play both the melodeon and the concertina but mostly only play the latter when I want to play with others in D. I no longer try to learn new tunes on the EC because I find it so much easier on the melodeon.

[ladydetemps]

After decades of struggling with fretted instruments I picked up an English concertina and was able to play simple tunes in C, G, D and F fairly quickly. That was almost ten years ago and I haven't progressed much past that point with the instrument. Four or five years ago I picked up a D/G melodeon and within a week I was playing simple tunes with chords. I believe that what I learned about bellows control from playing the EC helped. I subsequently switched to a G/C melodeon because I prefer the sound. I continue to play both the melodeon and the concertina but mostly only play the latter when I want to play with others in D. I no longer try to learn new tunes on the EC because I find it so much easier on the melodeon.

Well I've gone through many instruments....feeling that it wasn't me I couldn't be that musicly incompentant I just had to find a instrument that suited me. Tried playing the recorder...gave me a headache (and was told by teacher not to take lessons for a 2nd year), then keyboard (well had to at school and if I joined keyboard club it meant I had somewhere to hide from bullies before school) could only ever play with one hand, co-ordination didn't really ever appear....then lead, acoustic and bass guitar (I really can't get on with strings....hurt my fingers and I just don't seem built to play them)....bought penny whistle coz I thought it would be cheap and easy to play (I ended up feeling asthmatic every time I played)...next anglo concertina (no folks I ain't given up on it yet)...and now I want to try melodeon.

[Bryson]

Have you tried simply whistling?...

I'll get my coat... :)

[HallelujahAl]

Have you tried simply whistling?...

Still suck'n'blow is'nt it?
AL

[ladydetemps]

Have you tried simply whistling?...

Yes...I get one long very high tone.....and all the dogs in the neighbourhood start barking. lol!

Have you tried simply whistling?...

Still suck'n'blow is'nt it?
AL

I get 'wind instruments' I just don't have the lung capacity.

[finnhorse]

I play a 30-key Anglo concertina, and one year ago I started playing the melodeon full-time.  At sessions and with friends for the last ten years, I had been in the habit of picking up various boxes and fooling around with them for a few minutes, then laughing off my utter inability to muster a proper tune, all the while never taking any real appreciative amount of time to become familiar with the instrument beyond a few bars of this or that reel or jig.  I don't live around many melodeon players, although I know a number of Irish box players nearby.  That was my experience with the melodeon until last year when I developed an acute interest in melodeons.  In the meantime I had formed this half-cooked notion that the concertina and meloden would be pretty similar to one another.  Reading the opinions of users of other forums on the internet seemed to confirm this. My friends offered their two cents' worth of wisdom, to the effect of, "oh yeah, push/pull, they're real similar, piece of cake." 

So I watched a lot of videos on the internet, decided that half-step tunings are for the birds, and I bought one in G/C because I liked how low it sounded.  After a year of intensive practice and nonstop learning, and since acquiring two other melodeons in different tunings, I have come to the conclusion that playing Anglo concertinas and melodeons really have very little in common with one another. 

The size of the instrument, the rhythmical possibilities of a larger bellows and more volume, air management, volume and dynamics, the fact that the melodeon has *one* treble keyboard, left-hand discipline of playing a bass accompaniment, shape of the buttons -- all totally different.  I haven't tried to import any skills from the concertina at all, save for my understanding of how a diatonic and bisonoric instrument works and the tunes that I know by ear.  I've become quite familiar with the melodeon now, play just as easily by ear on either instrument, and really feel rather bored when I pick up the concertina probably because it lacks the driving bass that I've really come to appreciate in the melodeon.

...it's "honk" versus "farp" and I'm all about the honk right now.