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Author Topic: inside row  (Read 6291 times)

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waltzman

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inside row
« on: March 06, 2009, 12:50:37 PM »

I've been learning to play melodeon (two row 4th tuned) for about six months and it seems that I have an easier time finding chord accompaniment when playing in the inside row key than with the outside row key.  Having the four chord on the push and pull seems very helpful.   This seems odd to me since I thought the 'main key' of the melodeon is the outside row.  Am I missing something?
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Matthew B

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Re: inside row
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2009, 04:33:24 PM »

Some people refer to the two rows of quint boxes as "home keys", because they're the most obvious ones in which to find simple melody-and-chord combinations for major key tunes.  I've never thought of one or the other as the "main" row, though, each just offers different possibilities.  The inside row can seem a bit easier at first because all three chords for the three chord trick are found on the lowest four buttons of the bass end.  And if you "borrow" the bass note from the upper four buttons, you can get a nice walking "oom-pah" bass going (often maligned but great for starting people dancing, or keeping the tune going while you reach for your beer).  If you play on the outside row you have to jump from the top four buttons to the bottom four buttons to get the full set of three chords.  If you experiment with playing beyond the home keys you'll find that there are a lot of other options for left-hand accompaniment.  You can play 6 notes of a G scale on just the bass buttons, and you can cross-finger the bass and chord buttons to get some non-obvious chords out of the thing.  Some time ago Waltham did a great job of naming all of the chords that he used regularly, beyond the 6 that come "ready-made", as it were.  I was very impressed.  I don't bother with the names of the chords myself, but there are a lot of things that sound really nice if you tinker around a bit.
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Falseknight

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Re: inside row
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2009, 04:55:24 PM »

I find the "D" Row easier but only because I habitually cross to the inner row for the sub-dominant (G Chord) on the push where the notes are all in the same direction.
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Matt Langley

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Re: inside row
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2009, 12:45:49 PM »

Hi all

Matthew B - you mention that waltham did a list of all the chords he uses on the left hand.  Its not on the forum somewhere is it?  I did search for it but no joy.  Sounds like a really useful bit of info. 

Matt
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OwenG

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Re: inside row
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2009, 01:31:38 PM »

Matt,

I think the thread you are after is this one:

http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,380.0.html

Cheers,

Owen
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ganderbox

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Re: inside row
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2009, 06:02:17 PM »

Matt,

I think the thread you are after is this one:

http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,380.0.html

Cheers,

Owen


......which must look pretty scary to anyone who has been playing for 6 months!  I think I'll just stick to the ready-mades!
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Ellie

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Re: inside row
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2009, 06:27:01 PM »

Oh, I don't know - after a year of playing, I was just working up to asking this question (mostly from trying to remember which combination makes A min...not easy for someone who has no idea about chords!), and now it's been answered for me! Many thanks  ;D
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 06:28:59 PM by Ellie »
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Owen Woods

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Re: inside row
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2009, 01:24:59 AM »

I've always found bass easier on the inside row, just because the amount of interesting chords you can form is greater. Also the fact that you have the third as bass. I've also found that the inside row is in general easier to play, partly I suppose because the difference in fingering between the octaves is less evident.
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Bob Ellis

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Re: inside row
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2009, 09:16:46 AM »

I find it better not to think in terms of inside row and outside row. Whether I am playing in D or G (or indeed any other key), I cross the rows constantly because this gives much more freedom to choose intersting bass chords. For instance, many tunes repeat the same phrase: I will often play the phrase once on the push (perhaps using G, C and D push basses) and once on the pull (using Em, A and D pull basses). Le Canal in Octobre is a good example of a tune that sounds better played that way.
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Owen Woods

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Re: inside row
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2009, 12:31:00 PM »

I find it better not to think in terms of inside row and outside row. Whether I am playing in D or G (or indeed any other key), I cross the rows constantly because this gives much more freedom to choose intersting bass chords. For instance, many tunes repeat the same phrase: I will often play the phrase once on the push (perhaps using G, C and D push basses) and once on the pull (using Em, A and D pull basses). Le Canal in Octobre is a good example of a tune that sounds better played that way.


True, but if you cross rows too much you tend to lose the unique and instrinsic rhythm of the instrument that comes from the fact that it is bisonoric. If you're playing in a key in which the outer row can be said to be 'home' then you'd have to cross rows to get to the best chords, often when on the inner row the chords fall under your fingers anyway.

This is all moot anyway, because I do exactly as you do. I worry that I do from time to time do it in excess. One of the problems of playing an instrument which nobody else in the lineup understands is that when I do all sorts of clever fingering trickery nobody notices  :-[
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Bob Ellis

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Re: inside row
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2009, 07:26:35 PM »

True, but if you cross rows too much you tend to lose the unique and instrinsic rhythm of the instrument that comes from the fact that it is bisonoric.

There is an assumption that playing across the rows loses some of the punchiness of the instrument and makes it sound like a piano accordion, but that need not be the case. You can still retain a punchy in-and-out sound whilst crossing the rows to get more variety in the basses.
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Martin J

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Re: inside row
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2009, 10:11:32 PM »

One small point that seems to have been overlooked is that when you add a right hand note to a left hand chord you are changing that chord.  Sevenths are a prime example.  Only B has a seventh chord but most of the other chords you can add the seventh from the right hand.  No sure if Waltham's extensive list included these tonal modifications.

Someone much smarter than I also observed that there are only seven notes in a scale and it's amazing how differently you can arrange them !  :||:

I also agree with Bob that there is no need to loose punchiness when cross rowing.  It is difficult to maintain smoothness in an air or waltz when not cross rowing but quite easy to maintain chunkiness when wanted on or across the row.
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Owen Woods

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Re: inside row
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2009, 12:50:27 AM »

True, but if you cross rows too much you tend to lose the unique and instrinsic rhythm of the instrument that comes from the fact that it is bisonoric.

There is an assumption that playing across the rows loses some of the punchiness of the instrument and makes it sound like a piano accordion, but that need not be the case. You can still retain a punchy in-and-out sound whilst crossing the rows to get more variety in the basses.

That, however, takes more effort than letting the box do it for you ;)
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Martin J

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Re: inside row
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2009, 10:22:59 PM »

That, however, takes more effort than letting the box do it for you ;)
Yup, but the aim is more chord variation which means the direction of the bellows is dictated to you before choosing the right hand fingering.  No one claimed it was easy or indeed better, just possible.
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mrjulian

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Re: inside row
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2009, 10:15:44 AM »

True, but if you cross rows too much you tend to lose the unique and instrinsic rhythm of the instrument that comes from the fact that it is bisonoric.

Hmmm.  To a certain extent I agree, but I also feel that your brain learns to play anything like a melodeon - for instance I started my box playing on a melodeon, but now also play a Bayan which is the same in and out.  But I play it like a melodeon with space between the notes, not all legato like a PA.

Quote
This is all moot anyway, because I do exactly as you do. I worry that I do from time to time do it in excess. One of the problems of playing an instrument which nobody else in the lineup understands is that when I do all sorts of clever fingering trickery nobody notices  :-[
Too right!  :||:
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Accordion Dave

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Re: inside row
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2009, 03:10:05 AM »

Since starting my quest to learn the melodeon, I find that my bellows technique on the piano accordion has improved as well.
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Owen Woods

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Re: inside row
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2009, 04:07:18 AM »

Hmmm.  To a certain extent I agree, but I also feel that your brain learns to play anything like a melodeon - for instance I started my box playing on a melodeon, but now also play a Bayan which is the same in and out.  But I play it like a melodeon with space between the notes, not all legato like a PA.

Well, as said before, if one is playing all legato one is playing badly, whether one is playing a PA or melodeon ;) Seriously though, you may well be right. I have always found that there is something about the push pull action that I just can't replicate when all on the push or all on the pull, which is one of the things that really drove me to the instrument. I can't really explain it.
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Robin Harrison

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Re: inside row
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2009, 05:28:18 PM »

Quote
True, but if you cross rows too much you tend to lose the unique and instrinsic rhythm of the instrument that comes from the fact that it is bisonoric.

          But you also gain something as well........the abilty to play some phrases smoothly.Thus you have the choice of how you play a tune.Absolutely some tunes are so much better just up and down ( the Sloe for example). Some ( I think) benefit from some smoothness to eradicate some over-whelming bellows reversals ( for example Enrico) .
         It's the choice that I like so I can choose to play a tune a certain way  and not be constrained by my tecnique or the nature of the instrument.
   My own feeling, is the 2.5 or 3 row melodeon ( including the B/C/C#) is a wonderful blend between  unisonoric and bisonoric..........this is how I hear the tune in my head, now how shall I play it.
            But, chacun a son accordion ?
                       Regards,Robin  ( Francois will probably tell me accordions are feminine !)
               
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Owen Woods

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Re: inside row
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2009, 06:08:48 PM »

Quote
True, but if you cross rows too much you tend to lose the unique and instrinsic rhythm of the instrument that comes from the fact that it is bisonoric.

          But you also gain something as well........the abilty to play some phrases smoothly.Thus you have the choice of how you play a tune.Absolutely some tunes are so much better just up and down ( the Sloe for example). Some ( I think) benefit from some smoothness to eradicate some over-whelming bellows reversals ( for example Enrico) .
         It's the choice that I like so I can choose to play a tune a certain way  and not be constrained by my tecnique or the nature of the instrument.
   My own feeling, is the 2.5 or 3 row melodeon ( including the B/C/C#) is a wonderful blend between  unisonoric and bisonoric..........this is how I hear the tune in my head, now how shall I play it.
            But, chacun a son accordion ?
                       Regards,Robin  ( Francois will probably tell me accordions are feminine !)
               

I agree totally, it all depends on the tune. Some tunes sound better (to my ears at least) if I stick to one row (within reason, i.e. not including twiddles), others smoothly crossing rows.

I would also tentatively agree with your analysis of the 2.5 or 3 row, although I've never played either, what I do know of them appeals to me for the reasons mentioned. Although I would still like unisonoric basses :P
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Bryson

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Re: inside row
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2009, 11:40:26 PM »

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