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Author Topic: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand  (Read 35723 times)

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george garside

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Re: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand
« Reply #60 on: March 12, 2009, 09:20:55 PM »

Are Jimmy Shand records still available commercially? I'm a recent convert, having acquired a good condition 78 of his Bluebell Polka!  ;D

LP's & singles come up on ebay quite regularly. However a growing proportion of his recordings aare available on CD. I think the best quality  of sound reproduction is on those remastered under the supervision of the shand family 7 or 8 so far. www.jimmyshand.com  provides more info including details of tracks.  Also aavailable from REL records.  My fauvourite Shand CD is 'Jimmy Shand the king of the melodeon men'  released by EMI in 1994 and includes two of his 1934   recordings.   The written stuff with it includes comments by John Kirkpatrick,Martin Carthy etc. don't know if still available new.  There are many other CD's, some of better quality than others  & some have had too much of the  'warts an all'  nature of the original  1930's 1950's recordings digitally removed.  There are also a number of CD's of Jimmy Shand Junior that are quite different  as his style is different & he plays a continental C system box so  don't confuse the two.

I have many of JImmies LP's and 13 CD's  which is far from being a full set.


george
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Bill Young

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Re: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand
« Reply #61 on: March 12, 2009, 09:32:40 PM »

Are Jimmy Shand records still available commercially? I'm a recent convert, having acquired a good condition 78 of his Bluebell Polka!  ;D

There are loads of Jimmy Shand records re-issued on CD. In addition to the sources George quotes, iTunes have 12 Jimmy Shand albums listed. One of my favourite on-line music stores is Foot Stompin' (10% off everything after 1st purchase), which has several JS albums. Another good one is Concorde Music of Perth.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 10:57:04 PM by Bill Young »
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IanD

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Re: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand
« Reply #62 on: March 12, 2009, 10:50:44 PM »

Quote
And here's Jimmy playing it...

Wow - thanks, I'd love to hear the whole thing! Thanks Ian.
AL

The other tunes in the set are great as well -- but there's a 256kb file size limit so I chopped them off.

Here are the second (Eugene Stratton Banks?) and third (The Bonnie Lass of Bon Accord?) tunes -- enjoy :-)

Ian
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IanD

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Re: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand
« Reply #63 on: March 12, 2009, 11:01:48 PM »

Are Jimmy Shand records still available commercially? I'm a recent convert, having acquired a good condition 78 of his Bluebell Polka!  ;D

There are loads of Jimmy Shand records re-issued on CD. In addition to the sources George quotes, iTunes have 12 Jimmy Shand albums listed. One of my favourite on-line music stores is Foot Stompin' (10% off everything after 1st purchase), which has several JS albums. Another good one is Concorde Music of Perth.

There are indeed loads, but even on the pre-1956 double I've got a large part is the horrible snare-drum dominated sound I referred to -- in fact the cassette sleeve that I wrote has dividing lines on it with whole groups of tracks marked as "mush". And there's no way of knowing which is which unless you listen to them, though recording date (if it's noted) must be a very strong clue.

The best tracks -- in my opinion, of course -- are the really early ones similar to the ones I've posted which are just box and piano, before the "Jimmy Shand and his Band" sound took over. If I get time I'll have a listen through it and post a few more of the really cracking ones.

Ian
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IanD

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Re: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand
« Reply #64 on: March 12, 2009, 11:12:31 PM »

Quote
And here's Jimmy playing it...

Wow - thanks, I'd love to hear the whole thing! Thanks Ian.
AL

The other tunes in the set are great as well -- but there's a 256kb file size limit so I chopped them off.

Here are the second (Eugene Stratton Banks?) and third (The Bonnie Lass of Bon Accord?) tunes -- enjoy :-)

Ian

I found the details of the record here (vFO in Sources Key section):

http://www.nigelgatherer.com/perf/music/shand/78b.html

(the second tune is "Eugene Stratton" and the third tune is "Banks" -- so much for my cassette labelling)

and they're from one of his earliest recordings in 1935. Told you it was an early one... :-)

Ian
« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 11:18:55 PM by IanD »
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand
« Reply #65 on: March 12, 2009, 11:13:38 PM »

Quote
Are Jimmy Shand records still available commercially? I'm a recent convert, having acquired a good condition 78 of his Bluebell Polka!  Grin

Chris, don't know about LP's being available commercially - but certainly eBay usually has a shed load of stuff (records & CDs). Quite reasonably priced too some of it. I played Bluebell Polka yesterday at an over 60's club it went down a treat - always makes me work up a sweat though!
AL 8)
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Bill Young

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Re: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand
« Reply #66 on: March 12, 2009, 11:14:29 PM »

The other tunes in the set are great as well -- but there's a 256kb file size limit so I chopped them off.

Here are the second (Eugene Stratton Banks?) and third (The Bonnie Lass of Bon Accord?) tunes -- enjoy :-)

Ian
Just a wee problem with the tune labelling there. The second tune is the hornpipe Eugene Stratton, and the third tune of the set is the Banks Hornpipe. The Bonnie Lass of Bon Accord is a different tune and was on the other side of the 1938 Beltona record (BL2231) to the three hornpipes. There's a pretty good listing of the early Jimmy Shand recordings on this website.
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Bill Young

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Re: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand
« Reply #67 on: March 12, 2009, 11:29:44 PM »

(the second tune is "Eugene Stratton" and the third tune is "Banks" -- so much for my cassette labelling)

and they're from his first ever recording in 1935. Told you it was an early one... :-)

Ian
I'm feeling awfully pedantic here, but his first recordings were for Regal Zonophone in 1933. They're reissued on the CD "Vintage 78s - 1933 to 1950"
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand
« Reply #68 on: March 13, 2009, 12:13:06 PM »

What was the tuning of Shands Morino - also was the bass end standard stradella?
Lawks, its difficult to play some of this stuff on a regular two row DG!
AL
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IanD

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Re: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand
« Reply #69 on: March 13, 2009, 12:21:51 PM »

(the second tune is "Eugene Stratton" and the third tune is "Banks" -- so much for my cassette labelling)

and they're from his first ever recording in 1935. Told you it was an early one... :-)

Ian
I'm feeling awfully pedantic here, but his first recordings were for Regal Zonophone in 1933. They're reissued on the CD "Vintage 78s - 1933 to 1950"


...which is what I found out a few minutes later, then edited my post to correct this error :-)

Ian
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand
« Reply #70 on: March 13, 2009, 12:24:29 PM »

Quote
* Eugene Stratton.mp3 (102.52 KB - downloaded 4 times.)
* Bonnie Lass.mp3 (241.66 KB - downloaded 5 times.)

BIG thanks for these!
AL
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Ebor_fiddler

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Re: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand
« Reply #71 on: March 13, 2009, 02:04:31 PM »

 ... and my thanks to everybody who told me where to get JS Cd's!
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Bill Young

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Re: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand
« Reply #72 on: March 13, 2009, 02:51:32 PM »

What was the tuning of Shands Morino - also was the bass end standard stradella?
Lawks, its difficult to play some of this stuff on a regular two row DG!
AL
It's BCC#, and the bass is standard stradella. There are two sizes of Hohner Shand Morino. One has 40 treble and 105 bass. The original model which Jimmy Shand got just before WW2 is this size. The improved, post-war version, is also found in this size, but is more usually 46 treble and 117 bass. The reason for the odd number of basses is that the button layout is "squared off" at top and bottom, with some rows having fewer than 6 buttons (seen in almost any JS photo). The last Hohner Shand Morinos made, as played by Norman Mackay and Robert Nairn, have regular 120 basses and different treble couplers, and are probably diatonic variants of the regular Hohner Morino piano accordions of the time.
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand
« Reply #73 on: March 13, 2009, 03:24:09 PM »

Quote
The reason for the odd number of basses is that the button layout is "squared off" at top and bottom, with some rows having fewer than 6 buttons (seen in almost any JS photo). The last Hohner Shand Morinos made, as played by Norman Mackay and Robert Nairn, have regular 120 basses and different treble couplers, and are probably diatonic variants of the regular Hohner Morino piano accordions of the time

Yes, I'd often seen the 'squared -off' bass end and been curious - so thanks for explaining. Didn't Will Starr have four rows on his treble?
AL
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george garside

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Re: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand
« Reply #74 on: March 13, 2009, 03:49:05 PM »

Quote
The reason for the odd number of basses is that the button layout is "squared off" at top and bottom, with some rows having fewer than 6 buttons (seen in almost any JS photo). The last Hohner Shand Morinos made, as played by Norman Mackay and Robert Nairn, have regular 120 basses and different treble couplers, and are probably diatonic variants of the regular Hohner Morino piano accordions of the time

Yes, I'd often seen the 'squared -off' bass end and been curious - so thanks for explaining. Didn't Will Starr have four rows on his treble?
AL

yes & no  so to speak - on one of his shand morinos he haad an extra inside row of dummy buttons ? to make it look like a continental chromatic or maybe for some other reason.  I believe this box is still very much in existance

george
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IanD

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Re: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand
« Reply #75 on: March 13, 2009, 11:42:45 PM »

Quote
(I found the cassette, blew the dust off, converted just that track to MP3 -- it was a double album called "Focus on Jimmy Shand", all pre-1956 recordings)

Ian - that recording is stunning, it has turned an otherwise bothersome evening into an occasion.

Thanks a million

Mike

 

Much to my wife's disgust I spent a considerable time learning Arthur's Seat this afternoon -- though it doesn't sound like it, it can be played perfectly on a 2-row D/G with accidentals :-)

Ian

P.S. Not quite up to Jimmy's standard yet though :-(
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ladydetemps

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Re: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand
« Reply #76 on: March 18, 2009, 12:11:10 PM »

s Bass can be used to drive a rhythm, add a degree of harmony or  a bit of both.  More elaborate bass harmony often involves 'row crossing' on treble end to get bellows going in right direction  for a particlar bass note ( 'cos usually only C bass occurs on press & draw of bellows.
SO is it the more the merrier or is there an optimum number?

Theo

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Re: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand
« Reply #77 on: March 18, 2009, 12:48:52 PM »

s Bass can be used to drive a rhythm, add a degree of harmony or  a bit of both.  More elaborate bass harmony often involves 'row crossing' on treble end to get bellows going in right direction  for a particlar bass note ( 'cos usually only C bass occurs on press & draw of bellows.
and D
Quote
SO is it the more the merrier or is there an optimum number?

If there was an easy answer to questions like that then this form would be unnecessary :o
But seriously the standard 8 bass is a thing of wonder that so much can be done by so few buttons.  8 bass is plenty to get you started, once your playing style develops to the point where you feel the need for more then you will be in a position to decide how many and what the extras might be.
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Re: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand
« Reply #78 on: March 18, 2009, 01:06:54 PM »

Quote
If there was an easy answer to questions like that then this form would be unnecessary Shocked
But seriously the standard 8 bass is a thing of wonder that so much can be done by so few buttons.  8 bass is plenty to get you started, once your playing style develops to the point where you feel the need for more then you will be in a position to decide how many and what the extras might be.
And I thought concertina's were complicated ;)
lol!

Lester

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Re: Voices and Bass's - things I don't understand
« Reply #79 on: March 18, 2009, 01:23:22 PM »

And I thought concertina's were complicated ;)
lol!
And you were right

<pedant> Except for the grocer's apostrophe in concertina's </pedant>
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