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Author Topic: Dumb mistake and bass end question  (Read 2129 times)

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tirpous

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Dumb mistake and bass end question
« on: April 16, 2014, 10:52:14 PM »

As part of a restoration project of an old Hohner-like 2-row, I made a new bass-end faceplate out of plywood and somehow managed to glue it in backwards, i.e. the holes for the bass block are now nearest the buttons, rather than the chords holes as  usual.  I'm not too keen to start from scratch, and it looks like rearranging the button rods and maybe some reeds would work.

Is there a particular reason why the chords reeds must be near the buttons ?





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tirpous

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Re: Dumb mistake and bass end question
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2014, 08:05:26 PM »

Couple of pictures to illustrate problem.  I can think of a few options:

1- rearrange buttons/rods to get correct notes even if blocks are not located where they should (I'm wondering if there are hidden issues with this option, hence the question)
2- or plug the button holes, drill new holes in the back and call it the front
3- or re-open the frame and turn the plate around.

Thoughts and suggestions are welcome!   



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george garside

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Re: Dumb mistake and bass end question
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2014, 08:42:48 PM »

'3'

george
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boxcall

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Re: Dumb mistake and bass end question
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2014, 09:42:36 PM »

I agree with George, I be worried about if you would lose anything on the smaller (chord?) reeds sitting behind the bigger reed block? may be nothing but option 1# seems like a lot of work to.
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Graham Spencer

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Re: Dumb mistake and bass end question
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2014, 05:43:03 AM »

I'd go for 3 as well. Generally speaking, if you make a *****-up of a job it's best in the long run to undo it and do it again properly. A bodge is always a bodge, and will rarely, if ever, work as well as doing it the way it was designed to be.

Graham
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Among others, Saltarelle Pastourelle II D/G; Hohner 4-stop 1-rows in C & G; assorted Hohners; 3-voice German (?) G/C of uncertain parentage; lovely little Hlavacek 1-row Heligonka; B♭/E♭ Koch. Newly acquired G/C Hohner Viktoria. Also Fender Jazz bass, Telecaster, Stratocaster, Epiphone Sheraton, Charvel-Jackson 00-style acoustic guitar, Danelectro 12-string and other stuff..........

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Christopher K.

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Re: Dumb mistake and bass end question
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2014, 12:14:35 AM »

I'd go for 3 as well. Generally speaking, if you make a *****-up of a job it's best in the long run to undo it and do it again properly. A bodge is always a bodge, and will rarely, if ever, work as well as doing it the way it was designed to be.

Graham

Well put. I'm applying this wisdom as we speak, although in a wholly different matter.

tirpous

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Re: Dumb mistake and bass end question
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2014, 09:02:27 PM »

Thanks for the comments. 

I have overhauled the action (cleaned/de-rusted, replaced axle, made 7 springs to replace missing or broken ones).  It's now clear to me that option 1 cannot be accomplished by just swapping rods around.

I think I will go with option 2.  I'm all for 'doing it right', but this is a no-name box I'm fixing for fun, not a rare or valuable instrument. 

In theory, option 3 would involve carefully opening frame, ungluing 4 strips and new faceplate, cleaning up and regluing (the right way around !-).  But the whole thing is glued-up and more solid than it's been for the last 80 years.  So in practice the faceplate would most likely have to be scrapped to save the rest, which in turns means ungluing chords block from faceplate-to-be-scrapped, making yet another faceplate, etc, etc ... 

With option 2 the original functionality is retained, only downside is 12 plugged holes on the back panel.  Work involved: 12 holes to drill in new front, 12 holes to plug and finish/touch-up in back.  If I don't like the look of the touched-up holes, I could overlay a veneer, or even replace the back panel with a new one.
 
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Dumb mistake and bass end question
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2014, 01:41:39 AM »

In theory, option 3 would involve carefully opening frame, ungluing 4 strips and new faceplate, cleaning up and regluing (the right way around !-).  But the whole thing is glued-up and more solid than it's been for the last 80 years.  So in practice the faceplate would most likely have to be scrapped to save the rest, which in turns means ungluing chords block from faceplate-to-be-scrapped, making yet another faceplate, etc, etc ...
Good luck with rescuing the situation!

In hindsight I suppose this demonstrates one advantage of using hide glue (which can be released) for these sorts of jobs, rather than PVA-based glue.
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tirpous

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Re: Dumb mistake and bass end question
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2014, 03:45:36 AM »

Quote
In hindsight I suppose this demonstrates one advantage of using hide glue (which can be released) for these sorts of jobs, rather than PVA-based glue.

Hide glue was used for this repair.
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Dumb mistake and bass end question
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2014, 08:41:13 AM »

Quote
In hindsight I suppose this demonstrates one advantage of using hide glue (which can be released) for these sorts of jobs, rather than PVA-based glue.

Hide glue was used for this repair.
Good choice! You have a good chance of a successful outcome then!
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Steve
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tirpous

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Re: Dumb mistake and bass end question
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2014, 03:09:54 PM »

Err, yes, having used hide glue would probably facilitate re-dismantling the box, but as previously mentioned this is not the route I'm going anyway.
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sammypenn

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Re: Dumb mistake and bass end question
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2014, 10:36:26 AM »

 I would use Titebond Original wood glue. I use it all the time for instrument making, guitars jazz and classical, Hurdy Gurdy and all repairs violins melodeons and the like, used straight from the bottle, no heating fast grab and drying, water clean up and like hide glue can be softened  and dismantled with water and heat, stronger than hide glue and lasts longer.
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diatonix

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Re: Dumb mistake and bass end question
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2014, 11:07:17 AM »



Is there a particular reason why the chords reeds must be near the buttons ?
[/quote]

Until and including last year I built all my boxes with the largest and second largest bass reeds closest to the axle rod, thus following tradition and not giving it too much thought. Now, however,  I place them on the block closest to the buttons. The result is a noticeably stronger bass sound, mainly due to the increased lift of the pallets. I should have started doing this years ago!
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