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Author Topic: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's  (Read 10001 times)

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Lyn

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Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2014, 04:28:19 PM »

I have twice tried to reply to Young Ray's completely undeserved misrepresentation of what I said in my post.Both times there has been a red warning at the top about more replies ahead of mine and neither have posted.
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saltarelle nuage DG

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AirTime

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Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2014, 04:29:20 PM »

If there is a more beautiful melodeon tone in ITM than this, I'd be hard-pressed to come up with it ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe1EjTMPl0Q
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1920's BbEb Hohner; 1920's  AD Koch; 1910 (?) One-row Hohner in D,  1910's GCB Maga Ercole; ; AD 1950's Pistelli, CF Sandpiper, CF Preciosa, BbEb Preciosa.

triskel

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Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2014, 04:53:37 PM »

I suppose, for one thing, the accordion sound you like may depend on who your "God" (if you have one) on the box might be - and in my case that would be Joe Cooley (1924-73) on the two-row, who always played a 1940's/'50's/'60's musette-tuned (often 3-voice) Paolo Soprani, and Peter (P.J.) Conlon (1892-1967) on melodeon, who played a Globe "Gold Medal" on his earlier recordings and a Baldoni, Bartoli on his later ones. So those old, raw, full-blooded accordion sounds are the ones that appeal the most to me and those are my "ultimate" models of box, that I've sought out for myself (no mean task, you can't walk into a shop expecting to buy one, nor order a new one off the maker  :-\).

So I can sympathise, to a degree, with the sentiments expressed by the YT poster in finding the sound of the more "modern" style accordions too "polite" and in preferring a more traditional "old-school" sound (though he can keep his 9-coupler PS  ::)). But I'd wonder if he's not using "Saltarelle" as a generic term for what others might refer to as "Costalottis" and not really be specifically targetting Saltarelle after all, or maybe he simply doesn't know that she usually plays Castagnari accordions...

But I feel I really must point out that Saltarelle are quite categorically NOT accordion makers - their instruments have always been made for them in Italy, mostly by Dino Baffetti, and also by Serenellini for a while. There's a reason why the much-older French firm Accordéons Maugein describes itself as "le fabricant qui fabrique" ("the maker who makes"... )

Saltarelle is a "brand" and not a "make" of accordion, and they are not made in France, but the company doesn't declare this.

Edited to add and not really be specifically targetting Saltarelle after all, or maybe he simply doesn't know that she usually plays Castagnari accordions and but the company doesn't declare this, and to add link to Maugein website

Ray

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Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2014, 05:00:25 PM »

I have twice tried to reply to Young Ray's completely undeserved misrepresentation of what I said in my post.Both times there has been a red warning at the top about more replies ahead of mine and neither have posted.

I didn't mean to sound malicious in any way, I was just responding to what I got out of your post. The red warning just means to look below the boy you type in to read the new replies to the thread, just to make sure the conversation hasn't moved on or anything like that. You just have to hit the Post button again and it'll post :)
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LDbosca

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Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2014, 05:04:59 PM »

If there is a more beautiful melodeon tone in ITM than this, I'd be hard-pressed to come up with it ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe1EjTMPl0Q

The Saltarelles MOCO plays aren't the same as the ones they flog to the plebs

triskel

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Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2014, 05:05:10 PM »

If there is a more beautiful melodeon tone in ITM than this, I'd be hard-pressed to come up with it ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe1EjTMPl0Q

That's a lovely Serenellini he's playing  ;), but I'd go more for this older Paolo Soprani tone myself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGzJdoMeoQY

triskel

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Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2014, 05:14:40 PM »

The Saltarelles MOCO plays aren't the same as the ones they flog to the plebs

Having played Jackie Daly's one (which would have been made by Dino Baffetti) I can say I was seriously not impressed - in fact I've politely declined when he's offered me a tune on it since...

Graham Spencer

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Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2014, 05:15:51 PM »

My Saltarelle's a Serenellini......
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Among others, Saltarelle Pastourelle II D/G; Hohner 4-stop 1-rows in C & G; assorted Hohners; 3-voice German (?) G/C of uncertain parentage; lovely little Hlavacek 1-row Heligonka; B♭/E♭ Koch. Newly acquired G/C Hohner Viktoria. Also Fender Jazz bass, Telecaster, Stratocaster, Epiphone Sheraton, Charvel-Jackson 00-style acoustic guitar, Danelectro 12-string and other stuff..........

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LDbosca

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Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2014, 05:16:46 PM »

The Saltarelles MOCO plays aren't the same as the ones they flog to the plebs

Having played Jackie Daly's one (which would have been made by Dino Baffetti) I can say I was seriously not impressed - in fact I've politely declined when he's offered me a tune on it since...

His sounds unbelievably bad as well, I miss when he played a Paolo

Lyn

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Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2014, 05:20:03 PM »

OK Try and keep my cool (it has been a very trying and long day already)

I am relatively new to melodeons. I don't have 'gods'. I know very very little about makers, brands, whatever, and have no 'position' to defend. Which I must say, many people on this lovely forum DO. People have their styles of playing and choose their boxes with that in mind - I had NO IDEA folks could be so snippy, or defensive about OTHER PEOPLE"S choice of instrument! Can I say here and now I DO NOT CARE what you play, I dont think less of you if you have a humble Hohner (not my words, the words of a Hohner owner who thought I was going to be disparaging about her box- why? ) neither do I think you are an ace player merely because you are fortunate enough to be able to afford a more expensive instrument. I DO get tired when people ASSUME I will look down on a cheaper instrument than the one I am lucky enough to own. And the little jibes and jokes about costalotties may have been amusing first time round butnow I think they are becoming shorthand for "don't think you are better than me because you have a posh box" OK, not going to labour this point it has been done to death elsewhere - which goes to prove it is alive and kicking.

However, my post here has been misinterpreted by Young Ray - who, I accept meant no malice. I forgive you, having fumed and boiled for ten minutes earlier.  Let me explain the "lazy, ignorant, bandwagon commenting" this referred NOT to anyone who has a genuine dislike of any instrument, and can say why, but those who I know have never held or played one, yet repeat something they have heard - hence my adjectives are spot on.

And I would NEVER assume anything about anyone's ability to pay more for a box, I did NOT bring up the topic at all, and I most certainly don't believe and never said, that expensive boxes are beyond criticism or that pricier is always better, where on earth on my post can you extrapolate that from??

I care not a jot whether a name is a maker or a brand or a subsidiary or where it has been made, and I don't weight any opinion based on these factors. Please don't ascribe thoughts to me which I have never had.I thought the chap commenting on YT was probably trying to sell his Paulo what sit and felt he ought to rubbish something else - and why not good ole Saltarelle as everyone knows they are iffy??
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saltarelle nuage DG

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EastAnglianTed

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Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2014, 05:51:44 PM »

« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 05:58:51 PM by EastAnglianTed »
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gettabettabox

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Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2014, 05:55:20 PM »

they say...''any publicity is good publicity''... ??...i'm currently trying to sell a saltarelle 'irish' bouebe in the 'buy and sell' section on here!!

« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 05:58:49 PM by gettabettabox »
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Mystery Jig

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Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2014, 06:25:19 PM »

It wasn't that long ago when Seán Ó Riada was saying accordions didn't belong in traditional music at all. Time only flows in open direction and the thing that hurts traditional music the most is close-mindedness. You need a classic, expensive box to play? Tell that to Lemmie Brazil, or this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoeG2-ZKLBQ
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 06:52:13 PM by Mystery Jig »
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forrest

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Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2014, 06:33:49 PM »

Here are my thoughts...the YT poster of the critical statements has added this comment: "What would Joe Cooley, have made of it, I wonder?"..... For some reason, he has such a strong conviction of his opinion, that he even seeks the departed to somehow agree with him. I would step away from this sort of thinking, and return to what we know is sane...that is, that we all have and enjoy our instruments, in whatever diverse shape and form they manifest, and continue to play the music we love, and never fear.  (:)
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Lyn

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Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2014, 06:37:23 PM »

Forrest: ABSOLUTELY ABSOLUTELY ABSOLUTELY.
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saltarelle nuage DG

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Graham Spencer

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Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2014, 06:40:17 PM »

I must be missing something here - I really can't see why people are getting steamed up. Of course people have personal preferences, but I don't recall there ever having been brand snobbery here on melnet; in fact quite the reverse - people are generally genuinely interested to learn why player A favours box X while player B prefers box Y. Now personally I'm not keen on Castagnari; I don't much like the sound, and the few I've played have been heavy and disappointingly unresponsive, but I'm quite happy to accept that a huge wodge of the melodeon world thinks otherwise. No problem. I happen to like my Saltarelle (well, Serenellini actually) because it's light. bright-sounding and suits my style of playing - no other reason. I also own half a dozen Hohners, and to be honest I prefer the sound of any one of them over the Saltarelle. I tend to play the Saltarelle much more in public simply because its action is so effortless - the exception being when I need to play in a key other than D or G & friends (yes, I know it's not impossible on the Pastourelle, but life's too short - or at least too busy - to get my head round that particular can of worms). Having said I'm not keen on the generally dry to swing Castagnaris I'm equally unattracted by the dripping wet 4-voice Paolo sound. Top and bottom is we're all entitled to our own likes & dislikes; one man's meat......    I do think the YT poster, whoever s/he was, was a bit of a pillock, but that's his/her problem, not mine, and I can't be bothered to get worked up about it.

Peace, sisters & brothers(still a bit of a hippie at heart!)

Graham
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 06:42:11 PM by GPS »
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Among others, Saltarelle Pastourelle II D/G; Hohner 4-stop 1-rows in C & G; assorted Hohners; 3-voice German (?) G/C of uncertain parentage; lovely little Hlavacek 1-row Heligonka; B♭/E♭ Koch. Newly acquired G/C Hohner Viktoria. Also Fender Jazz bass, Telecaster, Stratocaster, Epiphone Sheraton, Charvel-Jackson 00-style acoustic guitar, Danelectro 12-string and other stuff..........

Squeezing in the Cyprus sunshine

AirTime

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Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2014, 06:44:58 PM »

Quote
It wasn't that long ago when Seán Ó Riada was saying accordions didn't belong ion traditional music at all.

I have to say, one of the things that fascinates me about the accordion (in its various guises), is the way it managed to position itself as a "traditional" instrument ,in a whole variety of different musical traditions, in what was essentially a very short time. I'm guessing that at the beginning of the twentieth century, when the modern accordion - piano, diatonic, chromatic button etc. - reached its mature form, it must surely have been seen by all traditionalists as a new-fangled "high-tech" instrument?
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1920's BbEb Hohner; 1920's  AD Koch; 1910 (?) One-row Hohner in D,  1910's GCB Maga Ercole; ; AD 1950's Pistelli, CF Sandpiper, CF Preciosa, BbEb Preciosa.

Ray

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Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2014, 06:47:15 PM »

And I would NEVER assume anything about anyone's ability to pay more for a box, I did NOT bring up the topic at all, and I most certainly don't believe and never said, that expensive boxes are beyond criticism or that pricier is always better, where on earth on my post can you extrapolate that from??

For that I construed that from: "SOMETHING, ANYTHING that they don't personally own, like or can afford". In retrospect I probably read into it wrong, I've had a long day too, I've been awake non stop from yesterday, so I apologise.
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Lyn

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Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2014, 07:09:43 PM »

Okey-dokey, and mine for the rant.

GPS - I agree with you.In general. But speaking as a newcomer with no background baggage, I'd say there is a smattering of what you call brand snobbery - usually of the inverted kind., even from some of the very nicest venerable chaps on here.  And the reason I got steamed up was, if you make a statement which is misconstrued, and then commented on, you do feel the need to put things straight. I love my Saltarelle, and rate it over my Mory for sound, but I played a suberb Hohner Pokerwork at Mendlesham the other week and I'd have snapped it up if it hadn't belonged to Helena! So that's where I am coming from.
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saltarelle nuage DG

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triskel

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Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2014, 07:09:58 PM »

It wasn't that long ago when Seán Ó Riada was saying accordions didn't belong ion traditional music at all. Time only flows in open direction and the thing that hurts traditional music the most is close-mindedness.

He described accordions as "Designed by foreigners for the use of peasants" - but he was over-stating his case for the sake of argument and actually had two box players in his group Ceoltóirí Chualann - Sonny Brogan and Éamon de Buitléar (who I met a couple of times and talked to about this), so (in reality) he couldn't have been all-that opposed to them. It seems though, that he did have problems musically with the typically discordant cross-row ornamention and the limited "ready-made" basses/chords of the button box.

Quote
You need a classic, expensive box to play? Tell that to Lemmie Brazil, or this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoeG2-ZKLBQ

Absolutely not! There's many's a good tune played on an old Hohner, and Bobby greatly misses that old G one that got drowned, in the boot, when his car was in a flood.

But these days he plays a Mélodie one-row 4-stop and a custom-made B/C by Bruno Priez.

Mind you, back when Lemmie Brazil got hers, or when I started out, the Hohner was probably the most expensive box in the shop - in fact I couldn't afford a Hohner at the time and had to buy a cheap brass-reeded Klingenthaler instead...

Edited punctuation
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