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Author Topic: "I don't trust myself"  (Read 6346 times)

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Gromit

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Re: "I don't trust myself"
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2014, 10:42:12 AM »

Yes that's what I find
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Marje

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Re: "I don't trust myself"
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2014, 04:18:13 PM »

My theory (which is mine) is that when you play from the dots you learn the notes. When you learn by ear you learn the intervals between them/shape of the tune. So, if I play from dots and someone gives me same tune written down in new key I struggle. If I learned it by ear I can play it in any key (not on melodeon, obviously) because I know how big the jump is to the next note, not what the next note is. Does that make any sense to anyone? So I have to NOT think about what note it is but how big the gap, and in which direction, to the next one. The only one I need to know is the first one.

This kind of makes sense to me but not entirely. Even when I have the dots in front of me, I'm using them mainly to see the shape and rhythm of tune. So if I see it written in another key it looks much the same and I can still "read" it the same way. Then once I see how it goes, I can start to play it, not necessarily in the key it's written in. I don't think much about what each actual note is, I'm thinking more of the intervals etc and how the tune should sound.
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Marje

george garside

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Re: "I don't trust myself"
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2014, 04:49:25 PM »

if you read the dots as something on the lines of  start 2 above keynote - same again -  up 2 - down 2 - same again - up 2 -  down 2- up 2-up 2-down 1 - down1 - same again - down 1 - down 3 - up 1  ( first line of Brahms lullaby)   you can play it in any key that you can play a scale easily in. irrespective of the key the dots are written in.

i.e you are simply reading how many notes higher or lower  the next one is and there is no need to worry about what they are called.  A sound knowledge of anad ability to play scales is essential as that will automatically direct you to the necessary 'black notes' in the particular scale.  I think the French call this process 'solmisation'' or something like that

george
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Lyra

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Re: "I don't trust myself"
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2014, 08:55:14 PM »

Nope, I'm playing the notes. But, as I say, it's completely different playing stuff mainly in a forest of  ledger lines above the stave, not having a melody as such, and unable to hear yourself because you are sat in front of the trumpets. Of course shapes come into it but they aren't the dominant feature. I'm also not worrying about what key it's in, just whether there are 6 flats or 5 and why the composer/arranger keeps changing his mind.
It's just how I seem to think. YMMV. And I think differently about actual tunes.
You're obviously a vastly better musician than I will ever be.
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CarolineC

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Re: "I don't trust myself"
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2014, 08:04:12 PM »

I have come to this debate late and found it really interesting - especially as a fellow one time oboe player! I spent much time in my youth (I am only 10 years behind you)learning to play what was in the written music, and in (very!) amateur orchestras watching the conductor and trying to play what seemed to be required - and on no account tapping my foot to the beat!

The melodeon has been a revelation in many ways - it has taken a while - I have now been playing for two and a half years and still have a long way to go - but it is liberating and fun.  I still like to have the dots initially - and would reiterate lots of the advice that has gone before - break the tune down - play a phrase lots of times with the dots in front of you - then hide the dots and try without them - rinse and repeat - your fingers will learn the patterns and know what to do leaving you to enjoy playing! Echoing other contributors - I have recently found that I can play the same tune in different keys without consciously thinking about it - which I find very strange - in fact I sometime don't realise initially that I am playing it on the 'wrong' row or the 'wrong' key - I think that is progress  :-\.
Sometimes I now have no idea how a tune goes until I start to play it - but if I look at the first bar of the dots it is enough for me to know the shape of the opening and I can stop looking - so I suppose there is something to be said for being able to learn by ear and know what the dots mean (although a tune learned by ear is seldom  exactly the same as the tune in the dots!).  Hope you have lots of fun and enjoy the journey.
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arty

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Re: "I don't trust myself"
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2014, 10:33:35 PM »

Thank you Caroline.

Yes I am enjoying it very much and I do find that now I am starting to play from memory, or rather playing from the heart, I am beginning to enjoy playing even more. Of course I start with the music and as you and others have suggested, I play phrases as soon as possible, from memory, until I have the whole piece lodged in my head.

While I do all my practice in the evenings, I am lucky to be able to keep a melodeon at work. if the weather allows, I go outside in my lunch break and play entirely from memory. I don't have any printed music at work, so I try to play whatever I have been practising the night before and it is really coming along well! I can already play a few tunes confidently, so I am really pleased with myself  (:)

Like you, the melodeon has been a revelation to me. After the, (for me), formality of the oboe, the freedom of this 'musical box' that we are both learning, is a breath of fresh air. Don't get me wrong, I loved the oboe and still love hearing it but the melodeon is just pure fun and part of the learning process now, is 'allowing myself' to let go and play from the heart. As is said in the film I linked to in my original post, it really is about learning to trust oneself.

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george garside

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Re: "I don't trust myself"
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2014, 10:59:00 PM »

the ultimate aim  is to be able to not think in terms of  named notes or even particular buttons!   Just to ''think'' the tune  ( or I  suppose the same more or less would be the same if looking at the dots instead of retrieving from the head)

i.e   a process much like singing/humming/whistling where you think of a tune and it pops out of the gob without any conscious operational intructions to said gob.    The reason for this is that  as we use the gob a great deal for speech as well as singing  the operational instructions are dealt with by the autonomic nervous system or 'autopilot'  So think a note a bit higher and there it is!

So with an instrument its  think how much higher or lower the next note is  and leave it to the handiest finger to do the  necessary

just a thought!




george
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author of DG tutor book "DG Melodeon a Crash Course for Beginners".
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