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Author Topic: busking  (Read 12739 times)

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JJRobson

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Re: busking
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2014, 04:39:40 PM »

A year or two ago I busked full time with my band and its great fun! Sadly I hadn't begun my melodeon playing journey at that point so I was (and still am) the guitarist.  We are based in Southampton and used to follow the hampshire farmers market around to the market towns. We'd often pay for a pitch like the rest of the traders and entertain the punters until home time. We always tried to aim for earning a set amount each day and leave before we got greedy. Christmas time was a different story though. Everyone is just so generous! The key is to keep things jolly and have a good time. We ran street ceilidhs at Rochester Sweeps festival last weekend which was great!

Not going to lie, we did annoy some shop owners but they were definitely a minority. In fact we had a positive impact overall. One shop owner in Hythe tried to get the other merchants to sign a petition effectively banning busking in the town after one of our busking sessions. The question on it read like 'does the band playing affect your business?'. The man in the picture framing shop replied 'Yes. Every time they play my turnover goes up 30%!' and that was the end of that  ;)

The toughest thing was the affect of cold on the different instruments in the band! We have various woodwind instruments which go flat as the cold set in while the guitar goes sharp (easily retuned though) and the PA stubbornly remained at 440Hz. we found below 4C that we just couldn't make it sound good anymore.

though I couldn't find any guidelines or requirements for it anywhere.

The guidelines vary wildly depending on what town you are in and the degree to which you can bend the rules also varies considerably. Some towns allow all comers while some require special licences or even a temporary events licence! (£21 a month in advance so if it rains on the day you're buggered) It helps to get to know the shop owners and even the local coppers tbh. Town centre managers generally don't like crap buskers but if you are any good you can get away with murder.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: busking
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2014, 07:05:35 PM »

£21 a month in advance so if it rains on the day you're buggered)

   Dunno … you've got sixpence ;)
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Andrew Wigglesworth

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Re: busking
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2014, 07:17:19 PM »

The guidelines vary wildly depending on what town you are in and the degree to which you can bend the rules also varies considerably. Some towns allow all comers while some require special licences or even a temporary events licence! (£21 a month in advance so if it rains on the day you're buggered) It helps to get to know the shop owners and even the local coppers tbh. Town centre managers generally don't like crap buskers but if you are any good you can get away with murder.

Busking is not illegal, and if you busk in a public place (ie. all those places you'd want to busk, shopping streets and precincts etc), you do not need any kind of "license" from an "authority", excepting those places where a specific bye-law has been enacted (I'm not aware of any covering any of the towns and cities where I have played, it would be interesting to see how many of these things exist in reality.).

Be polite of course, but having a uniform or a t-shirt saying "town warden" does not mean they have special powers over you.

Of course, this does not opt you out of laws covering public decency or environmental health, but these do not cover buskers in a special way that is different to other users of a public place.

PS. As for PEL, busking is specifically exempted in UK government guidelines to Councils.

PPS. I am aware of Camden Council trying to use (pervert?) the Local Government Act of London for use in banning/controlling busking. This is being challenged in court. Also, there are one or two places like the London Underground that are covered by their own acts of Parliament.

... more PPPPPSSSS   This is all in the UK of course.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 07:19:27 PM by Andrew Wigglesworth »
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Guy

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Re: busking
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2014, 07:30:31 PM »

I've considered having a stab at busking somewhere in Cardiff during the summer, though I couldn't find any guidelines or requirements for it anywhere. I've never seen a melodeon player around, though there's one young eastern european lad who knocks out some good tunes on a big PA. Might just be worth me finding a spot in one of the parks and seeing how it goes, though I suspect my repertoire might not last me much more than an hour :D

I've busked in Cardiff in the past....wasn't very lucrative, though that might be more about me than the general public! We got a lot more when a friend brought her baby along and stationed it near the Collecting Hat.... The general thought seemed to be that Abergavenny tended to be more productive on a Saturday....
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Steve C.

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Re: busking
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2014, 07:35:57 PM »

Kay Hickman used to (maybe still does) play the streets of Austin, TX, USA.
And not on a GCF Corona…. :|||:
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Re: busking
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2014, 08:06:18 PM »

I used to busk the covered market in Oxford and around the university buildings at weekends and go round the local towns on their market days ... what Anahata says about starting to busk being the hardest part of it!  Once you get a bit of bravado and confidence going then I really used to enjoy it - but disapproving looks from local shopkeepers used to make me nervous and I tended to move pitches quite a lot.

Back 10-15 years ago I would make between £30 and £80 for approx 4 hours playing in a day ... but it only got to that kind of level once I'd sussed out the kind of tunes which naturally grabbed the attention of people going past.  I often think that I'd still be doing it - but it was the rain that killed it for me ... 4 solid weeks of rain meant I had to stop and get some sort of job.
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robotmay

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Re: busking
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2014, 08:10:32 PM »

I've considered having a stab at busking somewhere in Cardiff during the summer, though I couldn't find any guidelines or requirements for it anywhere. I've never seen a melodeon player around, though there's one young eastern european lad who knocks out some good tunes on a big PA. Might just be worth me finding a spot in one of the parks and seeing how it goes, though I suspect my repertoire might not last me much more than an hour :D

I've busked in Cardiff in the past....wasn't very lucrative, though that might be more about me than the general public! We got a lot more when a friend brought her baby along and stationed it near the Collecting Hat.... The general thought seemed to be that Abergavenny tended to be more productive on a Saturday....

Abergavenny seems like a better place for it actually. Either that or acquire a baby somehow, gotcha >:E
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Re: busking
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2014, 08:21:22 PM »

In Exeter there are several shopping precincts or areas run by various people. These employ security guards etc. if we want to dance in these areas we need to get permission. The same applies for buskers. A while back one manager was featured on local TV as he auditioned buskers in an effort to weed out those that really shouldn't play in public.... Or anywhere else in fact  >:E
The 'non owned' areas in the city are, like Andrew says, fair game
Q
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Andrew Wigglesworth

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Re: busking
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2014, 08:34:11 PM »

In Exeter there are several shopping precincts or areas run by various people. These employ security guards etc. if we want to dance in these areas we need to get permission. The same applies for buskers. A while back one manager was featured on local TV as he auditioned buskers in an effort to weed out those that really shouldn't play in public.... Or anywhere else in fact  >:E
The 'non owned' areas in the city are, like Andrew says, fair game
Q

The whole of Coventry precinct (for instance) is "owned", but is classed as a public area. I suspect that there is no legal basis for these "bans" or auditions, just that no-one has challenged these petty officials.

The whole auditioning tendency is fraught with other dangers too (apart from the probable lack of legal basis). I have refused to do auditions in places, and then been told that "oh, you'll be OK, it's only to stop these Romanians and gypsies" ... I wonder which other groups they were intending to target either openly or by subtle prejudice?

What right (or even expertise) do these self-appointed public guardians of taste and culture have to do this? A lack of earning potential is the greatest leveler, the prejudice of petty officials I treat with the (polite) disdain it deserves.

george garside

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Re: busking
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2014, 08:51:24 PM »

one of those 'Romanians and Gypsies'    busks in Bangor  playing 'foreign' music on a   battered pre war piano box.  He is extremely good  and not only do I put brass in the hat but usually have a chat about boxes and the playing of about which he is very knowledgeable.

george
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Andrew Wigglesworth

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Re: busking
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2014, 08:54:19 PM »

I used to busk the covered market in Oxford and around the university buildings at weekends and go round the local towns on their market days ... what Anahata says about starting to busk being the hardest part of it!  Once you get a bit of bravado and confidence going then I really used to enjoy it - but disapproving looks from local shopkeepers used to make me nervous and I tended to move pitches quite a lot.

Back 10-15 years ago I would make between £30 and £80 for approx 4 hours playing in a day ... but it only got to that kind of level once I'd sussed out the kind of tunes which naturally grabbed the attention of people going past.  I often think that I'd still be doing it - but it was the rain that killed it for me ... 4 solid weeks of rain meant I had to stop and get some sort of job.

Shop workers who have no escape are a real concern. I often talk to them before or after playing, and they are usually surprised to have been asked, simply say that they quite enjoy it all, or say that they just get on with their job and stop noticing me playing even if they can hear it.

I try to choose spots where this sort of issue would not arise.

Incidentally, I remember walking down a busy (and well busked) central street in a major city, whilst chatting with the chief of the city's environmental health department. I have no rememberance of how I got talking with him, but he said that their policy was to ignore complaints from shop owners/workers, but to investigate ones from city centre residents. I queried him ignoring the shop keepers/workers and he pointed out that that there was different legislation covering them (as compared to residential), and if it didn't breach the noise at work regulations (vanishingly unlikely), they were not interested.

How much do I earn? ... heh, not saying, but £30 would be a bad day even on a wet week day in February.  ;)

Andrew Wigglesworth

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Re: busking
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2014, 09:00:43 PM »

one of those 'Romanians and Gypsies'    busks in Bangor  playing 'foreign' music on a   battered pre war piano box.  He is extremely good  and not only do I put brass in the hat but usually have a chat about boxes and the playing of about which he is very knowledgeable.

george

Indeed, I know of several similar, though, alongside a couple who seem to play a couple of chords (not all that loudly it has to be said) whilst sat in some side alley. It seems a strange occupation and would drive me potty doing that all day.

Some of these knowlegeable "foreigners" will stop and chat with me and are fascinated by my instruments and the differences/similarities in the music we play, as am I. More power to their elbows I say   (:)  :||:

pikey

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Re: busking
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2014, 09:16:38 PM »

York has a bye law, you have to buy a busking license.
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Re: busking
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2014, 10:46:56 PM »

Busking is great fun and at times profitable. I busk regularly with whistle and harmonica, but as my usual practice is to adapt tunes from harmonica to the melodeon one row C, I'm thinking I'll try it next.
Very interesting that people have reasonably fixed ideas about you - they either give, regardless of your musical ability, or do not. I've found that 90% of the people who peek into my hat are male and that children urging their parents on make the best donors. So I have become rather cynical - you must be prepared to switch instantly from Waltzing Matilda to Baa Baa Black Sheep in order to satisfy these critical listeners!
Some people seem to think of the busker as a mendicant monk and in giving might think their day will improve. Some insist on wishing you a sincere 'good day' and I am always careful to respond in kind.
An old mate of mine John Dengate who died last year made plenty in the Sydney CBD and he reckoned that people were more generous when he wore his older clobber!
Busk on, I reckon.
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Andrew Wigglesworth

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Re: busking
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2014, 10:51:09 PM »

York has a bye law, you have to buy a busking license.

There is no bye-law that covers the town centre (just a couple of streets, so the council claims), and you do not have to buy a licence.

pikey

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Re: busking
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2014, 08:22:35 AM »

There was ( now deceased) an  anglo concertina player in York who paid off his mortgage in 5 years with his busking money!.  He used to have friendly busking contests with other concertina players, allowing them to choose the best spot while he would take whatever was left - His takings were always the greater of the two. But then he was a brilliant player and tuner!  If nothing else this suggests that the punters  will divi up if they hear  tunes  that they can identify with  that are played extremely  well.

george

George, who and when was that ? I can't remember him, I'd love to know who he was !
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Re: busking
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2014, 08:26:56 AM »

York has a bye law, you have to buy a busking license.

There is no bye-law that covers the town centre (just a couple of streets, so the council claims), and you do not have to buy a licence.

You used to have to , it seems like they have now got back to a sensible position.
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JJRobson

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Re: busking
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2014, 09:45:09 AM »

I'll summarise what I know to be the most up date of by laws in good busking towns in the south...

Brighton: no bye laws. Chat the the man in pavillion cafe as he likes music near his punters
Winchester: by laws in place. must move pitch every hour, not use amplification and you cant sell CDs. These are universally ignored.
Oxford: Licence required from council. must move pitch every hour. The moving pitch thing is actually enforced by the other buskers who will linger and boot you off one of the 5 designated pitches
Windsor: used to need a licence obtained by audition. I don't think this is the case anymore.
Southampton: busking not allowed on the main street in town but if thers a market you'll be fine if you chat with the market manager as it drives away the hawkers.
Bournmouth: use to need licence now a free for all
Swindon: Busking allowed, selling CDs is not
Stratford: No bylaws
Chichester: Sunday you'll have no trouble as the council offices are shut! (also the town is an absolute goldmine)
Wimborne: no bylwas
Alton: no bylaws
Christchurch: no bylaws but you'll need to be friendly to the market
Gosport: no bylaws (I think)
Newbury: no bylaws (I think)
Bath: no by laws but there is a sort of 'Busk-moot'. All the buskers gather outside the cathedral early in the morning and decide who gets what pitch and for how long throughout the day.
Devizes: no by laws

As has been rightly said; town centre managers don't hold any real power, especially in a town without bylaws. Environmental health do though and they will move you on if they receive a noise complaint from a shop!
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robotmay

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Re: busking
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2014, 09:59:51 AM »

Stratford is no doubt great in the summer. There's an older circus performer who's there every weekend riding a 6ft unicycle juggling flaming batons under his legs, which is admittedly very entertaining, who absolutely rakes it in on busy tourist days. I suspect it's a bit tougher over the winter but as soon as the tour buses start showing up it'd certainly be good. I'm not too sure where the other viable pitches are around there though, he's placed right in one of the busiest tourist paths through the park, though he only performs once an hour or two.
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oggiesnr

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Re: busking
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2014, 10:02:55 AM »

York has a bye law, you have to buy a busking license.

There is no bye-law that covers the town centre (just a couple of streets, so the council claims), and you do not have to buy a licence.

York currently has no busking scheme and it's mayhem and quite unpleasant.  However Camden won it's court case and I foresee that their scheme will become the template for a lot of cities over the next few years so no amplification, no percussion, no wind instruments.

Given the current plethora of very loud bands (often Eastern European with trumpets and backing tracks and a bullying attitude to other buskers)  I know a lot of buskers who will welcome tighter rules.  A system where they who have the biggest PA wins is not a very good one but that's where we are at the moment.

Steve

PS To sell CDs you have to buy a license in York
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