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Author Topic: Observation  (Read 2943 times)

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melodeon

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Observation
« on: March 14, 2009, 04:35:14 PM »

While perusing web sites and brochures  for possible ( and yet again ) another box with a flat keyboard I noted a common recurrance:
namely that makers and rebranders  who offer many stepped keyboard boxes may offer a flat keyboard box....and most appear to be simply a rehash of a stepped board .
But what sets them apart is what they call them and that these boxes are dedicated to the 1/2 step tunings where they generally list B/C or C#/D or both... of course saying "also available on other keys"....and yes they must  call these  "Irish"  or "Irish Rose" or "Celtique" or some other such nonsense.  So what makes these "Irish" boxes.?

Considering that most are 21 button 12 bass... are these not simply Hohner Viennas or Ericas and really not Irish.  The Hohner has had a flat keyboard for burros ages.... Hohner  doesn't call their boxes "Irish" or Celtic" or "Micks" or any of that nonsence.. Double Ray or Black Dot maybe....


Why not a 23 button and a flat board  that's a bit closer
Or a Shamrock on the front   or a Guiness harp logo ?

STELVIO  offered a KERRY , which is now discontinued , with a flat board and an 11/12 set up they said was specifically for C#/D... apparently a failure... too bad they did not realize the value of a B/C  and  c'mon " dural" reeds.. might as well be a Saltarelle...
If you ask about the Kerry they suggest the "Molene" as a substitute which is a revamped 21 button stepped board model in which they downgraded the reeds to "dural" ... the stepped board model has tipo a mano reeds.

 So now we must add cheap reeds to define the IRISH accordion.. again in line with Hohner ( well maybe a little better)

One notable French maker/rebrander offers a 21 buttons with a flat board..  3 reeds with a low stop and a bass stop for the thirds.. were you not told it was an Irish box... wouldn't you call it a 3 reed 8 bass accordion?... or am I missing something ? Or is this a simple marketing ploy...    to all makers and rebranders.... A 21 button flat board box with  8 basses does not constitute an "IRISH" accordeon..particularly when "available in other keys"

How about a Cross or that wound up cloverleaf thingy , or a no snakes symbol..... or a leprechaun (sp), wouldn't that be more sensible
in defining an "Irish" accordeon.?

Or  how about simply putting a standard 2 row in a 1/2 step tuning, wouldn't that better define the unit. ?



This is about as absurd as calling every 10 button 2 bass 4 reed diatonic accordeon a "Cajun" box.



Just musing.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 11:27:52 PM by melodeon »
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Groovebox

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Re: Observation
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2009, 02:12:16 PM »

while, if a box is b/c or c#/d it is certainly an "irish" box becuase these tunings are used 80% of the time in irish music, while not common in other styles involiving the button accordion. And these boxes happen to have a flat keyboard becuase, that is what is prefered for the irish playing style, for easily playing slides and such.

So doesnt it makes sense for these to be branded irish boxes if they are made specifically for irish music?!

I understand that many "fourth apart" players box prefer stepped keyboards, but i guess if you want a flat keyboard you just have to go with the modified "celtique"!
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Stiamh

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Re: Observation
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2009, 02:56:33 PM »

Well it's all just marketing - who knows if it really works, because it's pretty feeble.

Since virtually all half-step players use the inside row as their main row, I find it incomprehensible that Irish makers such as Cairdin and Kincora, and even Briggs, who isn't Irish but whose main market is Irish players, don't make their accordions with the longer row inside. An opportunity was also missed with the "Jubilee" Paolos. 

I asked Michael Searson of Cairdin why, and he mumbled unconvincingly about "tradition" and said that he sold boxes to D/G players - right, a big part of his market. Bof!

Pity that Stelvio's 11/12 setup flopped. But for C#/D or B/C all you would need would be 10/11... Even Saltarelle seem to have dropped longer-row inside boxes from their "Irish" range... We half-steppers need help from St. Jude, I fear.
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Dazbo

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Re: Observation
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2009, 03:13:52 PM »

In my (limited) explorations in Italian manufacturers they seem to believe that if you play a semitone box you want a flat keyboard - and therefore class them as Irish - or play a stepped quint box which is "traditional".  The don't seem to get much demand for flat quint boxes or stepped semitone boxes.
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Darren

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Re: Observation
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2009, 03:57:20 PM »

Pity that Stelvio's 11/12 setup flopped. But for C#/D or B/C all you would need would be 10/11... Even Saltarelle seem to have dropped longer-row inside boxes from their "Irish" range... We half-steppers need help from St. Jude, I fear.

Or should we tell Aaro with his prototype box? We might get a faster response than St. Jude!
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melodeon

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Re: Observation
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2009, 09:44:17 PM »

Interesting observayions''The main point was that Hohner for ages has used a flat keyboard on the Erica and the Pokerwork
but... they don't call them Irish boxes

So just because a maker ( or rebrander)   has a flat keyboard doesn;t make it an Irish box
particularly when they say available in all or other keys

Why not call these boxes Hohner type....  absurd yes.. but so is calling these boxes Irish boxes

Transparent and "feeb;e" marketing
By definition an Irish accordion would be made in Ireland'

And   good point.. Those Irish that do build boxes.. why bow to tradition when a longer inner row would make the box more suitable to the style.   If Jackie Daly opts for a longer inner row, and he;'s Irish and plays Irish music.. isn;t that the beginning of a :logical" tradtion

You are right.. these makers missed an opportunity  so what's involved in reversing the rows..  nada

I particularly like the Italian "Irish" accordions then stamp them with an Irish word and misspell it

Look at Beltrami's web site     go to diatonics  you'll find some nice looking boxes... look closely at the typed web site print then look at the box photos

I will gladly send .50 US  cents to the first person who spots the error....  you pay shipping  : )

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EeeJay

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Re: Observation
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2009, 10:46:21 PM »


I particularly like the Italian "Irish" accordions then stamp them with an Irish word and misspell it

Look at Beltrami's web site     go to diatonics  you'll find some nice looking boxes... look closely at the typed web site print then look at the box photos

I will gladly send .50 US  cents to the first person who spots the error....  you pay shipping  : )

Model's called Seabhac... not exactly what it says on the tin...

Ed J
« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 08:42:43 PM by EeeJay »
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melodeon

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Re: Observation
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2009, 08:16:33 PM »

B I N G O !!!!

I owe you 50 US  cents.....

I have applied for some bailout funds,  I'll let you know when that comes in : )
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Observation
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2009, 03:44:39 PM »

Have you had the .50 cents yet Edward? ;D
AL
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EeeJay

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Re: Observation
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2009, 09:01:57 PM »

Have you had the .50 cents yet Edward? ;D
AL

Um... nope... I think the carrier pigeon got lost...  ;)

Ed J
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