Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9   Go Down

Author Topic: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?  (Read 27996 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

911377brian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1518
Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #120 on: May 18, 2014, 02:14:07 PM »

Is'nt the 'tradition' really just men dancing as a team for reasons of ritual or just plain fun? Bet that goes back a bit further than that nice Mr Sharp and his mates...
Logged

Lester

  • MADman
  • Mods and volunteers
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9109
  • Hohners'R'me
    • Lester's Melodeon Emporium and Tune-a-Rama
Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #121 on: May 18, 2014, 03:52:57 PM »

Is'nt the 'tradition' really just men dancing as a team for reasons of ritual or just plain fun? Bet that goes back a bit further than that nice Mr Sharp and his mates...

That will be why you are tagged as "Respected Sage", good opinion well put!   (:)

Graham Spencer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3538
  • MAD as a wet Hohner........
Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #122 on: May 18, 2014, 03:56:35 PM »

Is'nt the 'tradition' really just men dancing as a team for reasons of ritual or just plain fun? Bet that goes back a bit further than that nice Mr Sharp and his mates...

I'd have thought it was just people......
Logged
Among others, Saltarelle Pastourelle II D/G; Hohner 4-stop 1-rows in C & G; assorted Hohners; 3-voice German (?) G/C of uncertain parentage; lovely little Hlavacek 1-row Heligonka; B♭/E♭ Koch. Newly acquired G/C Hohner Viktoria. Also Fender Jazz bass, Telecaster, Stratocaster, Epiphone Sheraton, Charvel-Jackson 00-style acoustic guitar, Danelectro 12-string and other stuff..........

Squeezing in the Cyprus sunshine

Ollie

  • Grumpy Young Git
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1900
    • Ollie King
Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #123 on: May 18, 2014, 04:31:40 PM »

Is'nt the 'tradition' really just men dancing as a team for reasons of ritual or just plain fun? Bet that goes back a bit further than that nice Mr Sharp and his mates...

I'd have thought it was just people......

Indeed. Lots of evidence of women dancing well before Sharp's time. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to dig it out now, but I'm sure someone will oblige.
Logged
Hohner Erika 12 bass D/G : Hohner Erika Bb/Eb : Hohner 1 row 4 stop D : Hohner Erica 9 bass D/G :

http://www.olliekingmusic.com/

Free-Reed Specialist, Hobgoblin Leeds

Thrupenny Bit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6831
  • happily squeezing away in Devon
Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #124 on: May 18, 2014, 04:34:12 PM »

( Nick - which one is Dan, I'm not sure....)
Q
Logged
Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Thrupenny Bit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6831
  • happily squeezing away in Devon
Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #125 on: May 18, 2014, 04:36:10 PM »

Yep, 'people' is better, and might even be best described as 'families'
Q
Logged
Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

IanD

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1662
  • Too many melodeons...
Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #126 on: May 18, 2014, 04:38:43 PM »

Actually I think that's an important point, Chris; I'm afraid it's a fact of life that there are, these days, numbers of sides calling themselves "morris" (I know this thread is about traditional dance as a whole, not just morris, but the morris example will serve to illustrate the general principle) whose performances, whether good, bad or indifferent, have precious little, if anything, in common with the morris tradition. In fact I'm sometimes amazed - not to say horrified - when I discover how little many members of well-established and well-thought of sides actually know about the history and traditions of morris, and how little attention is paid these days to the regional nuances of style which were drummed into me by the dancers who taught me morris nearly 50 years ago. Cotswold morris, at least, seems by and large to have degenerated into a generic sludge of style which is applied like a coat of cheap emulsion to the dances of any and every morris village. Of course there are shining exceptions - just as there are teams of street dancers (whether or not they qualify as morris!) whose performances are well-rehearsed, well-executed and entertaining.
Ever since the morris revival where teams dance more than one tradition, there have been teams who mush them all together. And there have always been teams who do exactly the opposite, where great emphasis is taken to keep the styles of dancing (and music) distinct between traditions -- and in the style of the team, hence a comment a few weeks ago at practice by our foreman of "very nice *********, but you're dancing it like ***** ******* not *********** " (names redacted to protect the innocent).
Logged
Oakwood Model 4 D/G, Castagnari Dony D/G/#, Castagnari Tommy G/C, Baffetti Binci D/G, Hohner Preciosa D/G, Melos Bb/Eb, Lightwave SL5 and Kala California fretless basses

911377brian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1518
Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #127 on: May 18, 2014, 07:02:56 PM »

Thanks Lester..and you're right GPS, I suppose I should have said 'people'  :|bl
Logged

Nick Collis Bird

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3785
  • Been squeezing melodeons for over 48 years (badly)
Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #128 on: May 18, 2014, 10:03:11 PM »

( Nick - which one is Dan, I'm not sure....)
Q

Third from the left in the first picture Lester gave us. Having looked again. It might not be.

Q, are you coming to Yeovil to see some of the gang make a melodeon . Should have been a PM. I suppose
Logged
Has anyone heard of the song. “ Broken Alarm-clock Blues” ? It starts   “I woke up this Afternoon”

Malcolm

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 251
Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #129 on: May 19, 2014, 04:34:51 PM »

( Nick - which one is Dan, I'm not sure....)
Q
Dan is third from the right in the hay wain photo. Also in this photo are three other members of Flowers and Frolics - Graeme Smith (melodeon) who returned to Australia c.1976, Mike Bettison (melodeon) and Alex West (tuba). Dan's not in the Westminster Abbey pic.
Logged
Hohner Pokerwork D/G (My first box). Hohner Pokerwork C/F (Thanks to Martyn White). Hohner 4 Stops in G (My Minehead Box), D & C. Hohner Erikas in D/G & Bb/Eb (Thanks to Mike Rowbottom & Martyn White). Saltarelle Berry D/G (The token Costalotti) and a G/C Hohner Corso (wetter than an English summer)

Thrupenny Bit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6831
  • happily squeezing away in Devon
Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #130 on: May 19, 2014, 05:27:37 PM »

Thanks Malcolm, I'd gave struggled with Dan unless told. Isn't it funny to look back and see where things like a seminal band came from?

Nick - sorry won't make it this year, am dancing over weekend and during the week can't see a gap.
But.... If you pm me with exact times and place, I might pop in at the last minute if I get an opportunity.
Q
Logged
Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

pikey

  • Addicted to squeezeboxes since 1975
  • Thread mod
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3348
  • If it moves, I'll squeeze it....
Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #131 on: May 19, 2014, 10:58:29 PM »

Yep, 'people' is better, and might even be best described as 'families'
Q

Yuk, no doubt with 'Morris minors'. I can't think of anything worse .
Logged
Still squeezing after all these years.
Mostly on hohners , with a couple of Dinos and a smattering of anglos - and now a Jeffries duet

Chris Ryall

  • "doc 3-row"
  • French Interpreter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10171
  • Wirral UK
    • Chris Ryall
Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #132 on: May 19, 2014, 11:14:09 PM »

What a strange thing to say? ::) I think "family" or even "extended family" describes the folk scene quite well. I first heard the metaphor about Whitby, and yes, you go back year after year, meet people you go back a very long way with, and take it up from where you left it 12 months back. Not unlike (my own) family. But there's all sorts …
Logged
  _       _    _      _ 

pikey

  • Addicted to squeezeboxes since 1975
  • Thread mod
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3348
  • If it moves, I'll squeeze it....
Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #133 on: May 19, 2014, 11:30:57 PM »

That sort of family is fine  (:)
Logged
Still squeezing after all these years.
Mostly on hohners , with a couple of Dinos and a smattering of anglos - and now a Jeffries duet

Chris Ryall

  • "doc 3-row"
  • French Interpreter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10171
  • Wirral UK
    • Chris Ryall
Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #134 on: May 20, 2014, 10:07:35 AM »

I still have no idea why you object, Pikey. Exemplary brevity, as always, but were you to expand your argument, even slightly  … you might even win me over.

You aren't confusing the ↵ button on the keyboard , with the 'post' one by any chance?  >:E
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 10:21:32 AM by Chris Ryall »
Logged
  _       _    _      _ 

Thrupenny Bit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6831
  • happily squeezing away in Devon
Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #135 on: May 20, 2014, 11:04:28 AM »

Pikey - no absolutely not 'morris minors'
Families!
I was particularly thinking of the Hemmings family who were the man people who ran Abingdon going back a long way in time ( I know there was a split between Abingdon and the Hemmings family in the 80's ish ).
My uncle was a Hemmings though I later found out he danced occasionally with Headington under 'some bloke that played a concertina ', I was stunned when I realised he meant Kimber!

But....my point being a lot of traditional morris sides were run by family members, or extended family. Therefore any money collected went to 'the family' and helped with meagre finances that were a farm worker or other lowly paid wages and kept the extended family afloat.
Q
Logged
Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Graham Spencer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3538
  • MAD as a wet Hohner........
Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #136 on: May 20, 2014, 11:46:05 AM »


But....my point being a lot of traditional morris sides were run by family members, or extended family. Therefore any money collected went to 'the family' and helped with meagre finances that were a farm worker or other lowly paid wages and kept the extended family afloat.


Absolutely correct, at least in respect of Cotswold morris. If you haven't done so already (I'm sure you have!) I recommend you read Keith Chandler's two excellent books on the subject -Ribbons, Bells and Squeaking Fiddles and Morris Dancing: A Gazetteer. Incidentally, I have a spare copy of the Gazetteer if anyone would like it for the cost of postage & packing (bear in mind I'm not in UK  - should be about £6 to UK by airmail. I'd have to look up other destinations).

Graham
Logged
Among others, Saltarelle Pastourelle II D/G; Hohner 4-stop 1-rows in C & G; assorted Hohners; 3-voice German (?) G/C of uncertain parentage; lovely little Hlavacek 1-row Heligonka; B♭/E♭ Koch. Newly acquired G/C Hohner Viktoria. Also Fender Jazz bass, Telecaster, Stratocaster, Epiphone Sheraton, Charvel-Jackson 00-style acoustic guitar, Danelectro 12-string and other stuff..........

Squeezing in the Cyprus sunshine

Earbrass

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 193
  • May cause drowsiness
Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #137 on: May 20, 2014, 12:37:26 PM »

Indeed. Lots of evidence of women dancing well before Sharp's time.

Indeed. In the excellent book The History of Morris Dancing, 1458-1750 by John Forrest I seem to recall mention of William Kemp being joined in the dance by one or more women for part of his "nine days wonder", and the fact that this was not considered exceptional. I don't have the book to hand, however, so can't provide a page reference.
Logged
ilmatyynyalukseni on täynnä ankeriaita

TomB-R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 590
Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #138 on: May 20, 2014, 12:38:13 PM »

Pikey - no absolutely not 'morris minors'
Families!
I was particularly thinking of the Hemmings family who were the man people who ran Abingdon going back a long way in time ( I know there was a split between Abingdon and the Hemmings family in the 80's ish ).
My uncle was a Hemmings though I later found out he danced occasionally with Headington under 'some bloke that played a concertina ', I was stunned when I realised he meant Kimber!
Q

As in Mr Hemmings Morris!
http://mrhemmings.org.uk/
Tom

Logged

Earbrass

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 193
  • May cause drowsiness
Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #139 on: May 20, 2014, 01:34:04 PM »

As a side note, I suspect the notion of "unsmiling" morris photos being "traditional" is at least as much about the tradition of photography as it is about the tradition of morris. In the early days of photography, having one's picture taken was seen as a serious occasion, and smiling was not deemed appropriate.

Logged
ilmatyynyalukseni on täynnä ankeriaita
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal