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Author Topic: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?  (Read 27999 times)

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Chris Ryall

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Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2014, 04:33:03 AM »

I'll come back to this later, but here are some initial thoughts. Many of the European troupes are the result of heavy intervention and support from their respective governments. This is particularly true of troupes from ex-Soviet countries, who turned to their national folk music, dance and costume to gain some sense of national identity after the fall of the Soviet Union.

I'd only defer in that the big Bulgarian, Hungarian and Rumanian teams I saw in the 70's and 80s pre-dated the fall of the Soviet Union by a generation, and the 50's/60's iconic, and very "folk" based Red Army choir by even more. I see Cold War folk stuff on the eastern side as being the Nationalistic part of their propaganda machine, whereas the west went more for consumerism and "the American Way"  ::) generally leaving the Folk Arts to amateurs and enthusiasts. Frank's extraordinary anecdote about 80's North America hints that things weren't always that simple!

There's a nice old tale about a 50's cultural exchange between somewhere like Togo and the Soviets. The visiting tribal dancing ladies were attired above waist in the African way .. not at all; Moscow were a bit concerned about this. A suggestion that they might like to dress "in the Russian way" while on tour were met with advice that the Bolshoi Ballet respect Toganese sartorial style during their performances. Seems that ended the conversation. AFAIR I read it in Reader's Digest .. so it must be true ;)
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baz parkes

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Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2014, 09:47:48 AM »

There's no anwer to this, only opinions, and if you say, why does it matter, it doesn't, but I'm still interested..

I'd be interested if anyone has grass roots knowledge or experience elsewhere in Europe. Is it just the "show" teams that travel abroad, whilst others are doing traditional dance, in context, as themselves?
Tom

In the long and far off days, oh best beloved, when my knees worked and my breeches fitted I had the pleasure of dancing in the Basque Country with the Ironmen and Severn Gilders.  The rest of the teams (apart from the hosts...of which more later...)there were all funded by various governmental organisations and were surprised to learn that we had actually paid for our own travel there...our sponsorship consisted of 24 tins of WEM bitter generously donated by the brewery...which lasted as far as the motorway... :|glug

After a week of dancing in pelota halls, we came to the final Friday and got to do what English teams do best...dance in the street  (OK, I know that rapper teams are at their best in the smallest darkest room a pub can offer..).  The Basques were delighted at our response, as they were also used to "dancing out"...it meant that they could use their real white horse rather than the hobby equivalent...they were well used to dancing outside :neigh:.  Those from Guadalope, Quebec, Roumania etc. less so...

Meanwhile, in other news, can I just say how pleased I am to have had the opportunity to use the hobby horse icon, or whatever it's called..
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Malcolm

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Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2014, 11:07:10 AM »

I have participated in the World Folk Dance Festival in Mallorca on at least three occasions in the past and yes, the dance teams at such events do put on a show that seems somewhat sanitised of any tradition - although the sound of the drummers and dancers from Burundi who attended one year was worth the trip in itself. Just stunning! However, outside the competition format, many of the dance teams and their musicians were keen to have fun, dance and play their music in the more relaxed atmosphere of bars &c and often expressed interest in our and other teams' dances and music. I have also danced with dance teams from France, Germany, Sweden and Holland both here and in the host countries and, outside the festival format, they were not greatly unlike our own dance teams, if perhaps a little more tidily turned out in terms of their kit and general organisation! (also interesting to note how many musicians couldn't cope without their music stands!). By the same token, some morris and ritual sides (I can't think what else to call them!) are an absolute shambles and I have left some events in embarrassment before now as I simply couldn't accept their poor standard of performance - although I accept that this is judged by my own values and standards. What I have noticed however is that when dancing out abroad, it almost always attracts and appreciative audience which perhaps suggests a greater willingness for Joe/Jan/Jacques Public to engage with the traditions rather than, as so often happens here especially in the press, treating it with either total disdain or disinterest or as a joke. Certainly in Germany, many dance and other traditions were high-jacked by the National Socialists and suffered as a result in the post-war years and it has taken quite a while to lose this stigma, something which we here in the UK did not have to inhibit us.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2014, 11:22:06 AM »

Meanwhile, in other news, can I just say how pleased I am to have had the opportunity to use the hobby horse icon, or whatever it's called..

Too kind. It was intended for self mocking of contributors "on their hobby horse" ;)

This may be its first excursion in Morris Dance ribbons :|glug
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IanD

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Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2014, 12:02:06 PM »

Pretty much without exception, every time we've danced abroad we've gone down a storm, even with audiences who'd got no idea who we were or what we were doing.

On the other hand we see the same happen in the UK, so maybe all that stuff about decent dancing and music and building a rapport with the audience and entertaining them has some basis in fact ;-)

Though I can still remember the bemused looks when Nick introduced us to a French audience -- you know, "We are the world famous..." -- in Latin. It did get a laugh from the few people who realised what was going on, but I guess Latin is taught rather less in France than in English public schools...
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Sebastian

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Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2014, 12:46:15 PM »

I guess Latin is taught rather less in France than in English public schools...
OK, let's try: Non scio significacionem exactam nocionis "English public schools" nec si vaste instruatur latina lingua in Francia, sed generaliter ęstimacio linguę latinę (proinde eciam pręcepcio) magna michi videtur omni in Europa. ;)
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2014, 03:07:52 PM »

Er .. hence the popularity of this Jaque Brel number?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6rLLE48RL0   Its chorus is completely in Latin;  "rosa" declination = French equivalent of lesson-1 "mensa" for us :|glug
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Stiamh

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Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2014, 03:52:28 PM »

Non scio significacionem exactam nocionis "English public schools"

Let me help you there. In Britain, "public schools" are private. Because of this terminological aberration, the educational institutions you would expect to be called public have to be referred to as "state schools".

So when you read that xx.xx% of people in positions of power and influence in Britain attended public schools, don't be fooled into assuming that this is any indication of equality of opportunity.  (:)

Sebastian

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Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2014, 04:38:40 PM »

Let me help you there. In Britain, "public schools" are private.
Oops. Graciam tibi ago. Vere alio modo verbum interpretatus sum.  :|bl
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Stiamh

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Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2014, 04:41:21 PM »

Oops. Graciam tibi ago. Vere alio modo verbum interpretatus sum.  :|bl

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua.  (Y a pas de quoi.)

Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2014, 04:53:11 PM »

Honi soit qui mal y pense.  :neigh:
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2014, 05:09:03 PM »

...... Whereas I struggle with English  ::)
Q
Uffculme Secondary Modern.
Definitely not a public school.
( though not 'Approved' either  ;D )
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Mike Carney

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Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2014, 05:45:39 PM »

I guess Latin is taught rather less in France than in English public schools...
OK, let's try: Non scio significacionem exactam nocionis "English public schools" nec si vaste instruatur latina lingua in Francia, sed generaliter ęstimacio linguę latinę (proinde eciam pręcepcio) magna michi videtur omni in Europa. ;)
Hoc est quod intelligitur per quod a filo subtegminis egisse?
Mike  (:)
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Graham Spencer

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Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2014, 06:32:54 PM »

I guess Latin is taught rather less in France than in English public schools...
OK, let's try: Non scio significacionem exactam nocionis "English public schools" nec si vaste instruatur latina lingua in Francia, sed generaliter ęstimacio linguę latinę (proinde eciam pręcepcio) magna michi videtur omni in Europa. ;)
Hoc est quod intelligitur per quod a filo subtegminis egisse?
Mike  (:)

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IanD

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Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2014, 06:45:29 PM »

What have I started... >:E
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Malcolm

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Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2014, 07:20:47 PM »

Quia veni, et vidi, et ego remansi (with grateful thanks to Google Translate)
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Ollie

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Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2014, 08:16:55 PM »

Romanes eunt domus.  ::)
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Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2014, 09:16:02 PM »

Are we on a threadus drifte hear gang?
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Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2014, 01:29:42 AM »

Eyup!  >:E
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Re: Traditional dance - Are we doing it, or pretending to do it?
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2014, 07:21:54 AM »

We danced abroad once. In Manchester.  ;)
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