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Author Topic: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle  (Read 21328 times)

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Chris Brimley

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Re: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle
« Reply #60 on: June 04, 2014, 09:03:18 AM »

Chris, thanks for the links, they do look stunning. I'll PM Theo.
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Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle
« Reply #61 on: June 04, 2014, 11:20:30 AM »

On tuning... Nick and me opted for bandoneon tuning e.g. Low/med octave in the right hand, so the sound is completely dry. We also got some switches to join/separate the sound. Our reed blocks in this case were more complicated to make, cos the two sides accomadate a different sized set of reeds.
Immanuel explained how he chose various elements from accordions to come up with the classic design. The bass chimney system was borrowed from a Russian CBA (I think that's what he said). Someone was playing a Salterelle and he claimed to have designed it. Have to say he is a pretty clever bloke.

The chimney idea is brilliant. The amount of bass reed blocks can be increased in the same space.
Yes, Emmanuel did say he borrowed it from a Russian CBA
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Chris Brimley

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Re: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle
« Reply #62 on: June 04, 2014, 12:59:02 PM »

Can I ask about the 14 bass designs you've used?  The design on My Salterelle Tramontanes was Andy Cutting's, and it has this feature - instead of playing the root bass notes with your first finger in D or A you can substitute an F# or C# with your pinky in buttons 13 and 14, allowing the walking bass idea.  Is that what you've done?  If not, what is Emmanuelle's concept for these buttons?
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle
« Reply #63 on: June 04, 2014, 01:15:40 PM »

The chimney idea is brilliant. The amount of bass reed blocks can be increased in the same space.
Yes, Emmanuel did say he borrowed it from a Russian CBA
Please can someone explain what is the 'bass chimney' system? A photo or a sketch would be great  (:).
Thanks!
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Steve
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Lester

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Re: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle
« Reply #64 on: June 04, 2014, 01:22:41 PM »

The chimney idea is brilliant. The amount of bass reed blocks can be increased in the same space.
Yes, Emmanuel did say he borrowed it from a Russian CBA
Please can someone explain what is the 'bass chimney' system? A photo or a sketch would be great  (:).
Thanks!

A picture of the chord and bass blocks from my Pariselle. The chord block sits under the inverted L shaped bass block, the M bass reed is mounted on the side of the block and the L reed on the top.

Lester

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Re: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle
« Reply #65 on: June 04, 2014, 01:25:32 PM »

Another shot of the blocks without reeds. The lowest reeds on the top of the block have their own air feed chimney.

Chris Ryall

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Re: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle
« Reply #66 on: June 04, 2014, 01:34:18 PM »

Brilliant! I've added this innovation to the 21st Century Box blog. Hope I summarised it correctly. 


[ed] Wacky!! It's come just below a post from Theo with "curse" and "Lester" in the same sentence ;) (just teasing)!
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 01:37:52 PM by Chris Ryall »
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brianread

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Re: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle
« Reply #67 on: June 04, 2014, 02:01:15 PM »

Nigel from Bristol a brilliant box player and six foot something.

Nigel Cooke?
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Brian Read
D/G Oakwood (new model), D/G, C /F, Bb/Eb and E/A Liliputs,
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2.5 D/G Self made Emmanuel Pariselle, D/G Pokerwork,
and Wolverton Advanced G/D Anglo Concertina and C/G  1937 Wheatstone.
all played "lefty" with mostly an extra air button, except the Concertinas which I play the conventional way round.

Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle
« Reply #68 on: June 04, 2014, 02:32:44 PM »

Nigel from Bristol a brilliant box player and six foot something.

Nigel Cooke?

Yep. Smashing fella. Even if he did polish my bald patch with his elbow.  I'll get him for that.......one day
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle
« Reply #69 on: June 04, 2014, 04:43:02 PM »

Please can someone explain what is the 'bass chimney' system? A photo or a sketch would be great  (:).
Thanks!
A picture of the chord and bass blocks from my Pariselle. The chord block sits under the inverted L shaped bass block, the M bass reed is mounted on the side of the block and the L reed on the top.
Another shot of the blocks without reeds. The lowest reeds on the top of the block have their own air feed chimney.
Brilliant! Thanks, Lester!
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brianread

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Re: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle
« Reply #70 on: June 04, 2014, 05:58:50 PM »

Nigel from Bristol a brilliant box player and six foot something.

Nigel Cooke?

Yep. Smashing fella. Even if he did polish my bald patch with his elbow.  I'll get him for that.......one day

aha - old friend of mine from the Bristol Morris days.  I'm glad he got round to doing the course.  I think i may have talked to him about it when we met a few years ago - not sure though.  He's a great player - he inspired me to start again in 2005 @ Sidmouth.  He also has a box playing son - featured on Banquet of Boxes.

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Brian Read
D/G Oakwood (new model), D/G, C /F, Bb/Eb and E/A Liliputs,
A STREB!!,
2.5 D/G Self made Emmanuel Pariselle, D/G Pokerwork,
and Wolverton Advanced G/D Anglo Concertina and C/G  1937 Wheatstone.
all played "lefty" with mostly an extra air button, except the Concertinas which I play the conventional way round.

Rog

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Re: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle
« Reply #71 on: June 04, 2014, 09:16:31 PM »

I am lost in admiration for melodeonists taking this challenge on, and indeed for Emmanuel in setting up this sucessful model. I don't in any way believe it is simply "about" a cheap box. But the factors that distinguish "better" melodeons are very subtle. The facts (?) of life are that most course graduates might do a better job "next time", and that will always make this a personal triumph, though a very real one at that.

Selling on? Well I think I'd simply take such a box on its merits. But had I been its creator, I'd be unlikely to put it up for sale. Too much blood and sweat had been involved.

I think the quality is pretty consistent actually. None of the finished items looked like a first attempt. Emmanuel ensures that all the boxes pass his quality standards, and he gets involved to bring them up to scratch. The important bits of fitting e.g. the keyboard, is done by him. Tweaking the pallets so they don't leak likewise. The reed blocks are all finished by him, and the component parts are (mostly) precut, again by him. It is really a huge assembly job, for the builders, including putting in inlay - though Emmanual cuts the inlay channels on his wizzy table saw (looked up one of these fab bits of kit, the cheapest is around £2600). Emmanual does all the varnishing, at least for the sound boxes, so, again, you get the standard of a top box builder. What becomes clear is that probably most quality boxes are built in this way - by hand. I can't imagine an assembly line doing it automatically. The closest we got to that was when we fitted the keys, with Emmanuel shaping the key blanks, and passing them round the table. 

Lester

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Re: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle
« Reply #72 on: June 04, 2014, 09:21:12 PM »

though Emmanual cuts the inlay channels on his wizzy table saw (looked up one of these fab bits of kit, the cheapest is around £2600).

I've got the same one, £150 off eBay, all I need is Emmanuel's skills.

Owen Woods

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Re: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle
« Reply #73 on: June 04, 2014, 10:19:50 PM »

I've seen that chimney used a couple of other times, including in Olav's helikon reeded garmoshkas.
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Ollie

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Re: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle
« Reply #74 on: June 04, 2014, 11:11:23 PM »

Nigel from Bristol a brilliant box player and six foot something.

Nigel Cooke?

Yep. Smashing fella. Even if he did polish my bald patch with his elbow.  I'll get him for that.......one day

aha - old friend of mine from the Bristol Morris days.  I'm glad he got round to doing the course.  I think i may have talked to him about it when we met a few years ago - not sure though.  He's a great player - he inspired me to start again in 2005 @ Sidmouth.  He also has a box playing son - featured on Banquet of Boxes.

Nick (his son) is a fantastic player. Plays with Mawkin, and is now also in Kate Rusby's band. Highly underrated player, and a top bloke too.
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Rog

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Re: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle
« Reply #75 on: June 05, 2014, 12:06:26 AM »

though Emmanual cuts the inlay channels on his wizzy table saw (looked up one of these fab bits of kit, the cheapest is around £2600).

I've got the same one, £150 off eBay, all I need is Emmanuel's skills.
Wow.. You got a Hegner table saw for £150?  I'm impressed  ;)

waltzman

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Re: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle
« Reply #76 on: June 05, 2014, 03:20:04 PM »

The chimney idea is brilliant. The amount of bass reed blocks can be increased in the same space.
Yes, Emmanuel did say he borrowed it from a Russian CBA
Please can someone explain what is the 'bass chimney' system? A photo or a sketch would be great  (:).
Thanks!

A picture of the chord and bass blocks from my Pariselle. The chord block sits under the inverted L shaped bass block, the M bass reed is mounted on the side of the block and the L reed on the top.



It seems like this arrangement would increase the volume of air that needs to be manipulated to actuate the reeds. Is there any noticeable difference in responsiveness?
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sqwzboxstudent

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Re: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle
« Reply #77 on: June 05, 2014, 05:47:08 PM »

Are their any soundclips ?
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Anahata

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Re: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle
« Reply #78 on: June 05, 2014, 06:51:52 PM »

It seems like this arrangement would increase the volume of air that needs to be manipulated to actuate the reeds. Is there any noticeable difference in responsiveness?

I doubt it.
The change in pressure resulting from opening the pallet travels to the reed at the speed of sound, and it has to go (?) no more than 10cm - then the sound itself has an extra 10cm to travel back before it emerges from the end of the box, but that's all less than 1ms, which is small compared to the period of even a single cycle of a bass reed.

Executive summary: no difference, IMHO

Having the reeds buried at the end of a chimney might give them a particularly mellow tone, though.


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Re: Melodeon making with Emmanuel Pariselle
« Reply #79 on: June 06, 2014, 01:47:53 PM »

It seems like this arrangement would increase the volume of air that needs to be manipulated to actuate the reeds. Is there any noticeable difference in responsiveness?

I doubt it.
The change in pressure resulting from opening the pallet travels to the reed at the speed of sound, and it has to go (?) no more than 10cm - then the sound itself has an extra 10cm to travel back before it emerges from the end of the box, but that's all less than 1ms, which is small compared to the period of even a single cycle of a bass reed.

Executive summary: no difference, IMHO

Having the reeds buried at the end of a chimney might give them a particularly mellow tone, though.

As you say the chimney could filter some of the higher reed harmonics giving a more mellow tone -- but it could also peak before cutoff giving a nasty nasal tone, who knows...

If it also increases the total chamber volume behind the reed then it could also help with the reed starting. Bass reeds -- especially ones with weighted tips -- can often choke and start slowly if the pressure in the chamber rises very rapidly, a slower pressure build-up can help prevent this. Depending on the size of the hole under the pallet, a bigger chamber can help prevent bass reeds choking when played hard.
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