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Author Topic: Casali, Verona - 1940's grey box with toggle coupler switch  (Read 9598 times)

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triskel

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... Casali accordions still sell very reasonably - even if some of the 2-row ones are identical to a particular model of "grey box" that was sold with Paolo Soprani's name on them too, and therefore fetch rather a lot more...

... (but I'm hoping the 2-row grey Casali, that's in the post to me at the moment, will turn out to be a D/D#, or a G/G#, or even a C/C# that could be converted to C#/D - anything but a B/C!  ;))

So the Casali arrived from Lancashire by UPS this afternoon and it's in astonishingly good (near mint!) condition for a 1940's box. It both sounds and plays very well - though it could benefit from a touch of "spot" tuning, here and there) and a handful of new valves (but what do you expect for £120 + delivery! ;) )

The only downside is that it is in C/C#, but it shouldn't be too hard to bring the untouched original reeds up to C#/D, when the time comes...







It still has its original straps and there's absolutely no wear on the bellows. They don't really turn up any better!

I'm a very, very happy man tonight! ;D

pgroff

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Re: Casali, Verona - 1940's grey box with toggle coupler switch
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2014, 01:26:09 AM »

Great going, triskel!

So often the instruments that we buy sight-unseen turn out to have hidden problems, it's great to have you share this good news.

Looks like a great combination of features (and period) for a wonderful sounding box.  The sideways-throw lever switch above the keyboard reminds me of the 1940s Walters, and a few rare models of  aluminum-grille Paolo Soprani.

Going to C#/D?  I'm sure you have the wisdom to take it in the best direction for you. Will be interesting to see how you tweak it, after getting to know it better.

If it were me, I'd be playing it as a C/C#.  Or, if the call of the C#/D keys is irresistable, I'd think about moving the C# reeds over, pulling and saving the C reeds, and swapping in 4 voices in D . . . to leave the most meat on all the reeds for the next 70 years, and keep the option of returning it to its original voicing in C/C# if originality became more attractive later.  I'm sure all the existing reeds could be tuned up to C#/D though if that's your preference, but maybe not back again . . .

Congratulations in any case and play 'er in good health!

PG
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triskel

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Re: Casali, Verona - 1940's grey box with toggle coupler switch
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2014, 01:55:24 AM »

Thanks Paul, well I did say "when the time comes..." but maybe it never will - I'm greatly enjoying her just the way she is at the moment.

I'd love to know who played her (very little) before me - the box turned up in Lancashire and I'd wonder if it was originally played by an English or an Irish musician, especially as I've noticed that the C# inside row (which is where I'd mostly play) seems in better shape than the outside C one - which would be very much like a bunch of old boxes that I got from Suffolk some years ago that had belonged to the English traditional player Cyril Stannard, who had very evidently played them in "Suffolk concert pitch" C only...

It's almost entirely forgotten now that English traditional players most commonly played C/C# or B/C English/British Chromatic boxes in years gone by, long before (the usurper! ;)) D/G came along.

Edited to add: A sad (and entirely possible) thought has occurred to me, in that this style of accordion started to appear as early as 1938-9 (in fact I once saw this "streamlined" shape of Casali in a catalogue from those years) so I wonder if somebody might have bought it just before World War 2 and played it a bit before getting called-up - and never came back? It might have got put safely away and only recently resurfaced - it could well explain the astonishing "timewarp" condition of it.
I've somtimes seen Hohner Club Models in Germany that were in similar condition, and quite probably had such sad tales to tell too...  :(

Stiamh

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Re: Casali, Verona - 1940's grey box with toggle coupler switch
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2014, 02:32:22 AM »

It has relatively small buttons with lots of space between them, doesn't it? A friend of mine inherited a Casali in the same shade of grey but a two-voice. It came from his father-in-law in Antrim. It's now in C#/D but I don't know if that was the original tuning. Anyway, about 15 or 20 years ago - long before I became interested in boxes - my friend sold it to a musician from around here who particularly wanted it because of the keyboard. This was because he had lost the tip of his right-hand index finger in an industrial accident and had had the end of a big toe grafted on to replace it! The spacing means he is less likely to hit an adjacent button by mistake with this extra-thick digit. And he doesn't - he's a pretty handy player and never without his grey Casali.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 02:34:07 AM by Steve Jones »
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triskel

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Re: Casali, Verona - 1940's grey box with toggle coupler switch
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2014, 10:29:35 AM »

It has relatively small buttons with lots of space between them, doesn't it?

Yes, that'd be typical with them - though the smaller buttons are the same size as you'd find on an old grey Paolo Soprani and I didn't really notice the spacing on this one on initially playing it, until I took it home with me tonight and put it alongside my red Paolo Soprani. But I've seen quite a few 3-voice Casali ones (but not a 4-voice) in the past, sometimes with the two rows very close together, and one that was made for an accordion marching band with dummy bass buttons glued on and nothing inside - they can be a bit quirky!

I've also come across similar ones badged Paolo Soprani.

pgroff

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Re: Casali, Verona - 1940's grey box with toggle coupler switch
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2014, 12:39:34 PM »

It has relatively small buttons with lots of space between them, doesn't it?

Yes, that'd be typical with them - though the smaller buttons are the same size as you'd find on an old grey Paolo Soprani and I didn't really notice the spacing on this one on initially playing it, until I took it home with me tonight and put it alongside my red Paolo Soprani. But I've seen quite a few 3-voice Casali ones (but not a 4-voice) in the past, sometimes with the two rows very close together, and one that was made for an accordion marching band with dummy bass buttons glued on and nothing inside - they can be a bit quirky!

I've also come across them badged Paolo Soprani.

Some of the 1940s Serenellis that turn up in Australia and New Zealand have similar features to triskel's new prize, and often even more widely spaced buttons! Especially between the two rows.   

I have a black 2-voice G/G# 12 bass 1940s Serenelli, with some similarities to the Casali -- including, I think, the exact same feet on the bass side, integral to the case work like some grey Paolo Sopranis but very sharp-edged where they meet the cutout for the bass grille.  That Serenelli has the bass-side casework cut away with a recessed flat area around the buttons, again like the Casali (and different from most classic grey Paolos). 

I think these Serenellis tend to have wooden levers under the buttons, which the Casali may not (?).  The ones I've seen have great sounding, very expressive reeds, but most are MM or LMM.

They might be another choice for Steve's friend.  Or, the button spacing in every direction on the Serenellis is probably wide enough that you could drill out the keyboard plate and fit bigger buttons.

This discussion shows a white Serenelli (not mine, but similar to mine); I do have an 8-bass that's just like this white one but in dark celluloid, and also a 12 bass black one with a naked aluminum grille like the Casali:

http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,5493.msg69357.html

PG

« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 12:44:05 PM by pgroff »
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triskel

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Re: Casali, Verona - 1940's grey box with toggle coupler switch
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2014, 01:07:07 PM »

I think these Serenellis tend to have wooden levers under the buttons, which the Casali may not (?).  The ones I've seen have great sounding, very expressive reeds, but most are MM or LMM.

The levers are beech in the Casalis Paul, with thick aluminium rods, and mine looks incredibly "fresh" in there - looking at it you'd think it was only a few weeks old, not something close to 70 years...




In Britain and Ireland the 2-row Italian boxes from the 1930s/40s onwards are almost invariably MMM with no couplers, or LMMM with couplers, and in semitone English/British Chromatic tuning.

Edited to add photos

odonovanchris

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Re: Casali, Verona - 1940's grey box with toggle coupler switch
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2014, 04:25:06 PM »

Would the value of those Casalis be close to the grey paolos triskel? Fine looking box you have there.
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Casali, Verona - 1940's grey box with toggle coupler switch
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2014, 04:42:38 PM »

I'm puzzled. The Casali Verona I acquired last week, looks very similar inside, at the treble end. With 4 reed blocks, but 3 rows of keys, and no toggle shift or anything. Am I being silly, wondering why four reed blocks, on a 3 row?


John

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pgroff

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Re: Casali, Verona - 1940's grey box with toggle coupler switch
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2014, 04:47:34 PM »

I'm puzzled. The Casali Verona I acquired last week, looks very similar inside, at the treble end. With 4 reed blocks, but 3 rows of keys, and no toggle shift or anything. Am I being silly, wondering why four reed blocks, on a 3 row?


John

(Still with L plates ;)  )

John,

If you take off the grille as triskel did with this two-row Casali, you will be able to see how many rows of pallets there are.  Even if you have 3 rows of buttons in the melody keyboard, these might link up with only 2 rows of pallets.  In that case, with 4 double-sided reedblocks inside, your box might be a 4-voice.

PG
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triskel

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Re: Casali, Verona - 1940's grey box with toggle coupler switch
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2014, 05:24:04 PM »

Would the value of those Casalis be close to the grey paolos triskel?

No, like I said at the start:
... Casali accordions still sell very reasonably - even if some of the 2-row ones are identical to a particular model of "grey box" that was sold with Paolo Soprani's name on them too, and therefore fetch rather a lot more...

You'd buy a Casali for a fraction of the price of a grey Paolo - though you'd be be very lucky indeed to find as good a buy as this particular one...

But, though Paolos "have the name" and are generally better built, there's great power and expression in this Casali - in fact I could see it becoming my "main squeeze" if it was converted to C#/D! (At least for "concert pitch" playing... I've a lovely Eb that I wouldn't part with too.)

Fine looking box you have there.

Thanks, I'm quite smitten with it myself!  ;D

But especially the sound off it...  :||:

triskel

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Re: Casali, Verona - 1940's grey box with toggle coupler switch
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2014, 01:58:49 AM »

It has relatively small buttons with lots of space between them, doesn't it?

Yes, that'd be typical with them - though the smaller buttons are the same size as you'd find on an old grey Paolo Soprani and I didn't really notice the spacing on this one on initially playing it, until I took it home with me tonight and put it alongside my red Paolo Soprani.

Here are some photos for comparison:


"The herd" - Casali 4-voice C/C# 1940's, Paolo Soprani 3-voice D/D# 1955-56, Paolo Soprani 4-voice C#/D (originally D/C#) 1946-47


Casali 4-voice C/C# 1940's, Paolo Soprani 3-voice D/D# 1955-56.

The 4-voice Casali is no bigger than a 3-voice Paolo, but the buttons are smaller and more-widely spaced - which is especially noticeable on the bass end.


Casali 4-voice C/C# 1940's, Paolo Soprani 4-voice C#/D (originally D/C#) 1946-47.

The Casali has the same small buttons as the Paolo Soprani (typical of the old grey boxes) and the 4-voice Paolo is noticeably bulkier.

John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Casali, Verona - 1940's grey box with toggle coupler switch
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2014, 03:10:46 PM »

Here are the internals of my new Verona. Perhaps someone can give me a bit of info, as to what I have here, and an idea of age, perhaps?

John


https://www.flickr.com/photos/51227610@N05/sets/72157644959221215/
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pgroff

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Re: Casali, Verona - 1940's grey box with toggle coupler switch
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2014, 03:19:06 PM »

Here are the internals of my new Verona. Perhaps someone can give me a bit of info, as to what I have here, and an idea of age, perhaps?

John


https://www.flickr.com/photos/51227610@N05/sets/72157644959221215/

Hi John,

Really nice accordion. In one of your posts you mentioned that there were 4 treble reedblocks, but here we can see there are 5.  4 of them double-sided, and 1 single-sided.  That makes 9 ranks of reeds. This fits with the three rows of pallets for a 3-voice, (MMM since no switch?) box.

I don't know a lot about the dating of these but looks like a keeper!

PG
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 03:23:13 PM by pgroff »
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Casali, Verona - 1940's grey box with toggle coupler switch
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2014, 03:39:01 PM »

Yes, sorry about the 4 rows, not only can I not play Stradella (yet), but I can't count either, apparently ;)
Indeed I do plan to keep it too.

John

Found this on an accordion site

The first winner of the “Jimmy Shand Shield” was Jimmy Blue (1929 - 1999). In 1950, Jimmy bought a brand new accordion, a ‘Casali’ 3 row, 48 bass instrument which cost £57 10/-. He was a determined button box player and he worked extremely hard on converting from two to three rows and his efforts were rewarded in that in the autumn of that year playing ‘Cameron Highlanders’, ‘Fiddlers Joy’ and ‘The Mason’s Apron’, he took home ‘The Jimmy Shand Shield’ for Scottish country dance music.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 04:31:35 PM by Cugiok »
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Re: Casali, Verona - 1940's grey box with toggle coupler switch
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2020, 04:12:30 PM »

Hi John,

Just noticed these pictures.  I've got a Casali e -row 48 Bass that is the double of this one, except that mine is black.  Love ly wee box.

How you gettinmg on with yours...?

Cheers,

Sandy Mathers
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B/C Double-Ray Black Dot; Guidi 1-Row C; B/C Double-Ray Deluxe; Frontini B/C; Casali B/C/C# 48 Bass; Hohner Club II C/F and a bit

John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Casali, Verona - 1940's grey box with toggle coupler switch
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2020, 04:22:21 PM »

I chickened out and sold it Sandy Couldn't cope with the stradella.

SJ
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rees

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Re: Casali, Verona - 1940's grey box with toggle coupler switch
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2020, 09:23:30 PM »

I don't think these are actually called Casali Verona - they were made by Casali in Verona, Italy.
After all, we don't say a Castagnari Recanati, a Hohner Trossingen or even a Wesson Welshpool.
Just saying ........
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Eshed

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Re: Casali, Verona - 1940's grey box with toggle coupler switch
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2020, 09:30:11 PM »

I don't think these are actually called Casali Verona - they were made by Casali in Verona, Italy.
After all, we don't say a Castagnari Recanati, a Hohner Trossingen or even a Wesson Welshpool.
Just saying ........
Still better than all the "Stahltone" boxes  ;D
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