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Author Topic: Gaillard Question  (Read 20844 times)

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odonovanchris

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Gaillard Question
« on: June 10, 2014, 03:15:33 PM »

Well lads, as ye probably know I've been on the lookout for an Old Grey Paolo for quite some time now and haven't had any luck. I suppose being in the middle of Canada doesn't help much. So I'm considering ordering a Gaillard Cristal model instead, I know they're a completely different beast of a box but well worth the investment in my opinion; I'd almost go as far as saying that they may become the "holy greys" of the future. (if that doesn't spark a debate I don't know what will haha).

Anyway I'm torn between MMM and MML, it will most likely be a B/C with 8 bass in the McComisky layout - C/F bass replaced with D/F. I've scoured youtube for all the clips with Gaillards. I really like the tuning of jackie daly's gaillard here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2ruAoN3yqM, can anyone tell the setup and musette level? I'm guessing MMM swing tuning. Damien Mullane's box is a tad too dry for my liking although I believe his is 2 voice...am I right?

Any info would be great lads!

Cheers,
Chris
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Stiamh

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2014, 04:36:25 PM »

The box that Jackie had was a four-voice (something Bertrand G no longer makes). Joe Burke still has its twin. Damien's is a two-voice. Jackie sold his to Conor Keane and told me he found it "heavy and sluggish"!

Getting BG to supply you with a tuning anything wetter than a minimal swing might prove problematic, as I and a couple of other players I know can testify to our chagrin. I reckon you ought to try one before you order. It's a long wait and a lot of money. After 18 months of trying to like mine I sold it to pay my taxes.

I also reckon if you are interested in the sound of an old grey (rather than its value as a collector's item), you should consider a 3-v Double Ray Deluxe. I heard Sean McComiskey playing a gorgeous-sounding box at a session and assumed it must be one of his dad's old greys. But it was a Hohner that had had the Quinn treatment.

LDbosca

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2014, 04:41:54 PM »

I'd steer clear of the mccomiskey layout anyway, it doesn't make any sense to have two unrelated chords on the same button. The Joe burke layout makes a lot more sense.

i play a cristal when I'm not on my Paolo, theyre a great box. Mine benefited from dropping the action a bit. I have mml and i think it gives great variety; i switch between settings a lot. Great with the bass couplers too. Id recommend 12 bass, it's still v light and it's very handy

odonovanchris

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2014, 05:20:29 PM »

Jackie sold his to Conor Keane and told me he found it "heavy and sluggish"!

I heard Sean McComiskey playing a gorgeous-sounding box at a session and assumed it must be one of his dad's old greys. But it was a Hohner that had had the Quinn treatment.

I'm sure he doesn't make the 4-voice anymore because of them being "heavy and sluggish" :)

I'll be giving the blue 50s paolo I just acquired the "quinn treatment" soon actually, it already has the raspy sound I'm looking for - just needs to be upgraded to C#/D from the current C/C#. So hopefully that'll satisfy my needs in the paolo world.

The Joe burke layout makes a lot more sense.

Id recommend 12 bass, it's still v light and it's very handy

Interesting I've never tried the Joe Burke layout...will look into that.

Yup my main concern for not choosing 12 bass is the weight...but having the extra chords wouldn't hurt if it's light.

What's he like to order from? I hear he gives you a few months after paying deposit to make your mind up over the final configuration.

Anyone have a Gaillard that's located in western Canada so I can have a try??
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LDbosca

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2014, 05:26:23 PM »

It's still lighter than pretty much all other left hands. I'd do it and get Bmin and F#min, same direction.

McComiskey setup makes absolutely no sense, I can't figure out why people have it. Maybe from reading about it on the internet but not having the experience to make a better decision.

BG stopped making the 4voice because he said it didn't "breath" with all those reed blocks in it.

He's very punctual and easy to deal with with ordering. Takes a deposit and two payments before the final one and he will give you a little lee way to make up your mind

Roger Howard

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2014, 05:47:56 PM »


What's he like to order from? I hear he gives you a few months after paying deposit to make your mind up over the final configuration.


I've just finished ordering a Crystal from BG, and found the process very straightforward. He's extremely clear and professional - his email responses were very prompt, precise and friendly. A payment of about 25% books your slot on the waiting list, and you then have three months to agree your specification with him. I have to say I did that more or less straightaway, though I did revise my initial idea. It was not an issue. A pleasure to deal with, I would say.

The delay for my box is a bit over three years.

Hope that's helpful, best wishes

Roger

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Lars

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2014, 05:48:25 PM »

McComiskey setup makes absolutely no sense, I can't figure out why people have it. Maybe from reading about it on the internet but not having the experience to make a better decision.

I've played B/C for close to ten years, and still have a couple of B/C boxes apart from the C#/D's (my main system), and I have tried various systems, including the Burke setup.

I still prefer the McComiskey, and I use the basses close to 100% of the time. I find it very natural, and I find that it gives me more 'bounce' than Burke setup. Besides that, it's also closer to the standard C#/D setup, making transitions natural, which is a benefit when playing both systems (like it sounds like Chris is going to). We all have our favorite setups, you just gotta find the one that suits you best:)
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Mandomentch

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2014, 05:57:52 PM »

I took delivery of my Gaillard Cristal 10 years ago and I have not regretted the purchase one bit! Mine is a 3-voice (LMM) in C#/D with 12-bass. Bertrand told me it would be 2 1/2 years from deposit and he was able to deliver within a week or two of that prediction, pretty amazing when you consider that he moved his home and shop during that period. I may be one of the people that Steve was referring to in his comments about tuning. The accordion was, indeed, tuned very dry when it arrived. In fairness to the maker, however, I had requested a dry tuning when I placed the order. My tasted changed over those 2 1/2 years and I simply had Bob Snope at The Button Box adjust the tremolo. Problem solved!

I have never had a lick of trouble with the instrument. The tone is clean and very strong. The key action is remarkably precise and quiet. Listen to Joe Derrane's recordings....he has 2 Cristal accordions.

Robert 
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LDbosca

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2014, 06:35:14 PM »

McComiskey setup makes absolutely no sense, I can't figure out why people have it. Maybe from reading about it on the internet but not having the experience to make a better decision.

I've played B/C for close to ten years, and still have a couple of B/C boxes apart from the C#/D's (my main system), and I have tried various systems, including the Burke setup.

I still prefer the McComiskey, and I use the basses close to 100% of the time. I find it very natural, and I find that it gives me more 'bounce' than Burke setup. Besides that, it's also closer to the standard C#/D setup, making transitions natural, which is a benefit when playing both systems (like it sounds like Chris is going to). We all have our favorite setups, you just gotta find the one that suits you best:)

You don't think the Nolan system'd be better if you want the D and G on different directions? That F/D button gets me...

odonovanchris

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2014, 06:48:01 PM »

I'd do it and get Bmin and F#min, same direction.

Thanks, I've never played a properly tuned 12-bass layout actually (the only one I played was that pepperpot I had and sold on but it was in bad need of tuning). So are the Bmin and F#min included in that "standard" 12-bass layout for B/C??

The delay for my box is a bit over three years.

Thanks Roger, Yes his current delivery is July 2017....so yes it will be a long wait....but definitely worth it I hope!

I've played B/C for close to ten years, and still have a couple of B/C boxes apart from the C#/D's (my main system)

I still prefer the McComiskey, and I use the basses close to 100% of the time. I find it very natural, and I find that it gives me more 'bounce' than Burke setup. Besides that, it's also closer to the standard C#/D setup, making transitions natural, which is a benefit when playing both systems (like it sounds like Chris is going to).

Thanks Lars, yeah B/C is my main system and my red paolo has the McComisky layout so that's what I'm used to. I'm fiddling with C#/D at the moment because a lot of the sessions in my local Comhaltas are playing tunes that are in keys that suit C#/D better. What's your reason for using C#/D as opposed to using B/C as your main system?

I took delivery of my Gaillard Cristal 10 years ago and I have not regretted the purchase one bit! Mine is a 3-voice (LMM) in C#/D with 12-bass.

I have never had a lick of trouble with the instrument. The tone is clean and very strong. The key action is remarkably precise and quiet. Listen to Joe Derrane's recordings....he has 2 Cristal accordions.

Thanks Rob, I'm just concerned that LMM won't give me the full power of MMM when I'm playing the MM setting, I can hear from some recordings that the MM has good tone on the Gaillards but I guess I'm indoctorined into the school of thought that MMM is the best :) It's nice to be able to have an L set of reeds at your disposal though...and it gives much more flexibility in the instrument. Switching from MM to MMM wouldn't do a whole lot I'd say.

You don't think the Nolan system'd be better if you want the D and G on different directions? That F/D button gets me...

At the time I just needed a D on the squeeze, so john nolan suggested I use the McComisky system. That's a while back when I had a LMM 90s paolo.
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Bob Ellis

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2014, 07:52:59 PM »

Late last year, I was considering ordering from Bertrand Gaillard, but the waiting time of over three years put me off doing so. I was chatting to Bernard Loffet a couple of weeks ago and he said that Bertrand is intending to retire in the next couple of years and that he is training up his daughter to take over the business. Whether that will affect the speed or quality of production is anybody's guess.
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Lars

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2014, 07:56:42 PM »

What's your reason for using C#/D as opposed to using B/C as your main system?

I found that it suited me and my style better - it's easier to get some punch, at least for me, with C#/D. I also tend to pick up new tunes faster on a D row, regardless of key, but that might be a question of being used to it, as opposed to B/C that actually requires me to think about where I put my fingers. I have immense respect for good B/C players (like mr. LDBosca) who can make B/C fluent and soft, it takes me a good bit longer to get that than on the C#/D.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2014, 10:11:31 PM »

Gaillard's daughters both describe him as the ultimate perfectionist, and I think that is a big aspect of his success. It might not suit you, but here really are no faults. I ordered my F#GC (I cannot sensibly comment on the halftone options) in 2006, and asked if he was bringing on an apprentice. "No"

Given this is essentially an artisan rather then a firm (so unlike fili Castagnari) I supect Bertrand's acknowldeged skills may pass into retirement with him. A corollary is that one may need to order now, or not at all.

AFAIR he farms his final tuning out to a lady, whom I suspect also has alstrong views, and an aversion to wetness. I chose bandonèon but he tried hard to move me to semi swing MM, clearly a favourite.

So a man with strong opinions. But I think that might be part of the attraction.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 10:14:47 PM by Chris Ryall »
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LDbosca

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2014, 10:38:57 PM »

I don't know what the standard for 12 bass b/c is, or even if there is one. I have the bmin beside the a/e and the f#min beside the d/d. The Joe burke layout for the other 8 makes extra sense in the context of this 12 bass layout; if you get to inversions and chords such as dmaj7 or bmin7 then you'll want the D the same both ways.

I definitely recommend the LMM. And my other box is MMM, musette tuned. For me, the beauty of the Gaillard is its ability to do so many things; the Paolo is the box i have to do one thing perfectly  (:)

odonovanchris

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2014, 10:57:34 PM »

I don't know what the standard for 12 bass b/c is, or even if there is one.
I definitely recommend the LMM.

Maybe we can all decide here what would be the best 12 bass layout then :) I'll have to send him the final specs within 3 months. Paying deposit today...wish me luck :) I found this website with descriptions of the different layouts...now to choose one. http://squeezehead.com/keyboard-layouts/basses/LAYOUTS.html

LMM it is then!
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 11:17:38 PM by odonovanchris »
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ButtonBox21

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2014, 12:23:28 PM »

Just a suggestion, but maybe you should contact John Nolan in Nanuet, NY. He is an expert on Paolo Soprani and is a dealer/repairer/instructor as well. He is also an expert player on BC and I'm sure he could help you out. His web sit is www.accordionwizard.com. Can't hurt to call him. :||: :|||:
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odonovanchris

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2014, 03:34:57 PM »

Just a suggestion, but maybe you should contact John Nolan in Nanuet, NY. He is an expert on Paolo Soprani and is a dealer/repairer/instructor as well. He is also an expert player on BC and I'm sure he could help you out. His web sit is www.accordionwizard.com. Can't hurt to call him. :||: :|||:

Thanks yeah I've already had a box in with John, great guy and pleasure to do business with. Not sure if he plays a Gaillard though?

Well I've gone ahead and paid Bertrand the deposit so the long torturous wait begins :) Just curious about his prices though, he quoted me the tax exempt price because I'm living outside the EU, has anyone ever done that but gone and picked up in person at the end? Did he make ye pay the tax then? I suppose I'll be taxed either way anyway.
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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2014, 03:42:27 PM »

Well I've gone ahead and paid Bertrand the deposit so the long torturous wait begins :) Just curious about his prices though, he quoted me the tax exempt price because I'm living outside the EU, has anyone ever done that but gone and picked up in person at the end? Did he make ye pay the tax then? I suppose I'll be taxed either way anyway.

Don't know how it works exactly for you, but for me it's like this:

Since i am my own company, for ervything i buy from outside the Netherlands (like the Gaillard i bought) that has a relation to my work no VAT needs to be charged by the seller. He needs to keep my taxnumber in his administration though,

W
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Stiamh

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2014, 04:38:34 PM »

If you picked it up, yes you would have to pay the tax. But if you present your invoice at the airport you can get the tax reimbursed. On bringing it into Canada you would have to pay GST and PST if applicable but (unless the regulations have changed in the last year or so) accordions imported into Canada are not subject to excise duty.

odonovanchris

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2014, 05:06:44 PM »

If you picked it up, yes you would have to pay the tax. But if you present your invoice at the airport you can get the tax reimbursed. On bringing it into Canada you would have to pay GST and PST if applicable but (unless the regulations have changed in the last year or so) accordions imported into Canada are not subject to excise duty.

So in the airport before I leave the EU there's customs or something? How does that work? Do they just cut me a cheque?

Looks like Bertrand only makes 30 accordions per year...so considering the 3 year wait that's 90 ahead of me. Makes me wonder how many are in existance...probably around 800 - 900
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 06:42:52 PM by odonovanchris »
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