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Author Topic: Gaillard Question  (Read 20847 times)

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Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2014, 04:56:01 PM »

Me too :P
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bosca

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2014, 05:09:43 PM »

I ordered a 2voice turquoise model off Bertrand in June2012. Date for delivery is May2015. The worst of the wait is over i think - although i reckon once it get to the last few weeks, ill probably be just as bad as a child waiting for christmas. I just tried my best to forget about it once i finalized my choice of model, tuning etc... Its good in a way that you pay in stages, giving plenty of time to get money together etc...

Will you be picking it up in person or getting it shipped? Yeah I definitely agree that the multiple payments are great. I also got a quote from him back in 2012 but never ordered at the time, now I'm kicking myself that I didn't do it then :)

Im not sure yet. A friend of mine knows one or two others who have gotten Gaillards and i was going to get him to ask them what they had done. Like you said earlier, id be in tears after waiting the best part of 3 years for a box only to find it damaged.
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Andrew Wigglesworth

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2014, 07:49:07 PM »

To put it back to basics.I wrapped it well took it down to the post office and no questions asked,accept how much is it worth. Having told them about £700.00 away it went and arrived about  nine days later. No import or export duties even considered.
Likewise a Melodica and one row Mel swap no probs at all.
   Am I missing something here?

Yes, most of the insurance, sadly  :(

http://www.parcelforce.com/help-information/compensation-refunds-and-claims/items-we-exclude-compensation

I'm glad that they arrived in good shape, but if you read that page then it is clear that your instruments weren't fully insured and (see the asterisks) that the "inclusive compensation" at £100 or £200 (depending upon the service you used) was only for loss not any damage.

I'm not having a go at you personally, it's something that is dead easy to walk into. Maybe they should have asked the question at the Post Office, but I suppose they just rely on the small print. I only replied since it raised a red flag for me as it's something I investigated for a friend a short while back ... and I did read the about exclusions.

odonovanchris

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2014, 10:11:32 PM »

Could someone please post a few pictures of what the inside of a Gaillard looks like, pallet levers and reeds and bass mechanism? Cheers, I'm just curious what this Duralum material looks like.
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Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2014, 06:09:22 AM »

Well, thankfully Andrew, that never arose. It just goes to show, always read the small print. If it had been damaged, I would have been up some sort of estuary without any form of propulsion.  :-\
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odonovanchris

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2014, 06:16:43 AM »

Well Bertrand confirmed my order today so the official 3-year wait begins! In his email I'm down for an 8 bass Cristal model though, do you think he'd mind if I switched it to the 12 bass model. Is he easy going that way? Don't want to spark tempers at this stage:)
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Roger Howard

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2014, 07:23:57 AM »

I would expect that not to be a problem. I changed from one model to another at a similar point in the process - I think BG sees the deposit as securing a slot in the build list, and allows three months for settling specifics. I wouldn't think he'd mind any changes at this stage  - though too many might challenge his patience!

My delay is until July 2017, too. I'm hoping to pay a visit next summer, and intend to collect in person when the time comes.

Best wishes

Roger
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2014, 07:27:54 AM »

Yes he would mind, and no, he isn't easy (he is negotiable). I was very new to C#DG when I ordered, done experimenting with dutch reversal but trying some filed notes on the C# row to increase chromaticism. I think he looked over my Oakwood, but I ordered "standard French" with Pignol/Milleret bass.

8 months in, I felt sure, and emailed asking Bertrand to change to the GC equivalent of C#DG (F#GC) and got a very frosty reply. Gaillard doesn't run a queue like most makers. It is a true 2 year process, batched in 6s. eg He'd already made my blocks … reeds ordered from Binci :-\

I grovelled a bit and had to pay €400 more for "own system", fair enough. But I'd lost my slot and it cost me best part of a 3rd year. Fair enough! ::)

So he likes customers to be clear, and well directed from the outset, not mess him about. Thought I'd blown it, but 2 years ago at Ch.d'Ars he waved me over to his stand for aperitif, I was forgiven. He's a really nice chap, but totally focussed in his work. Daughter C(forgotten) was there too, but I don't recall her being a maker(?) I'd met her younger sister a few years back in Ardeche, clever research biochemist, headed for California. She plays nicely, but won't make in my view.

But I digress. I think BG might accept an order "either 8 or 12 bass" but is likely to get you to commit 24 months before delivery to suit his methods. Now that he has a true waiting list of a year or so you should be OK [ed] ldbosca: Agree, early change is trivial. But he doesn"t like 'em a year in!!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 11:36:22 AM by Chris Ryall »
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LDbosca

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2014, 10:54:22 AM »

You've just ordered it, of course he won't mind.

odonovanchris

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2014, 04:40:41 PM »

My delay is until July 2017, too. I'm hoping to pay a visit next summer, and intend to collect in person when the time comes.

Cheers Roger, oh that's great, I would also like to visit him at some stage and collect in person, so you never know we may bump into each other. Yeah I'll definitely be switching to the 12 bass although I need to figure out which is the best layout for the B/C version. I'm set on a B/C now too and it will be LMM with Swing tuning or increased swing tuning...I don't want it completely dry sounding. Here is his definition of the tunings:

TUNING

The degree of tremolo is given by the number of beats a second between the 2 voices (middle

register) regarding the high A key of the right keyboard.

flat (or dry) tuning : not any beat

½ swing tuning : about 1 beat / 2 seconds

swing tuning : “ 1 beat / second

increased swing tuning : “ 2 beats / second

american tuning : “ 3 beats / second

increased american tuning : “ 4 beats / second

Yes he would mind, and no, he isn't easy (he is negotiable).

Ah I'll let him know the final exact specs before his 3 month request, all will be fine :)

You've just ordered it, of course he won't mind.

Yup exactly my thoughts, I sent him an email anyway just giving him a heads up that I'm going to go for 12 bass and said I'll give him the definite specs before his 3-month request.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 04:47:43 PM by odonovanchris »
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Roger Howard

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2014, 05:18:39 PM »

As for tuning, Bertrand advised me very clearly against too dry a sound, though, as he said, I must choose for myself. My Loffet 2.6 has a light swing, which I had thought would correspond to BG's 1/2 swing. I took his advice, though, and eventually specified swing. That is, I think, the characteristic sound of a Gaillard G/C that I'm looking for. You might want something different for a B/C.

I don't think for a minute there'll be an issue with changing to 12 basses - it's one of his standard options and you're very early in the process.

Have you communicated in English? I've persevered with my French; he seems to have appreciated the effort.

All the best for the box - I'm confident it will be worth the wait!

Roger
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Stiamh

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2014, 06:06:36 PM »

Here is his definition of the tunings:

The degree of tremolo is given by the number of beats a second between the 2 voices (middle register) regarding the high A key of the right keyboard.


The key part of those descriptions of tremolo is "high A" - that must mean your A at 880 Hz. This tallies with what his tuner told me when I was protesting that the "swing fort" (presumably "increased swing") that I had ordered turned out to be much drier than what I thought I was going to get.

She told me that for swing tuning she tuned the highest notes to 1 beat per second and then decreased the tremolo as she went down the scale. So by the time you get down to middle C there's not much tremolo happening - and neither was there on my box, which she presumably tuned to 2 beats at the very top.

At the time my box was to go off to the tuner, BG wouldn't accept any descriptions in terms of cents, let alone sound files. You had to describe things in words! I did try to explain what I wanted over the phone, and at the end of quite a long discussion (during which IIRC there was no mention of beats per second) he said it sounded as though I wanted "swing fort," a description that I liked. I had said that "tremolo americano" was wetter than what I wanted - but clearly, from the above, his understanding of that description was much drier than mine, and an awful lot drier than what the people at Serenellini had given me as tremolo americano:(

When the box arrived and I didn't like what it sounded like, and protested, BG said he "wasn't surprised"! But that didn't stop the issue quickly souring what had been a very cordial relationship. If the result was that he is now giving out those definitions, then perhaps my unhappy experience will benefit others. But understand, the stated tremolo is at the top end and diminishes as the notes get lower.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 06:15:25 PM by Steve Jones »
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odonovanchris

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2014, 06:53:05 PM »

As for tuning, Bertrand advised me very clearly against too dry a sound, though, as he said, I must choose for myself. My Loffet 2.6 has a light swing, which I had thought would correspond to BG's 1/2 swing. I took his advice, though, and eventually specified swing. That is, I think, the characteristic sound of a Gaillard G/C that I'm looking for. You might want something different for a B/C.

Have you communicated in English? I've persevered with my French; he seems to have appreciated the effort.

I'm going to have to think very carefully about the tuning (see comment from Steve), I like my paolos wet but I wouldn't want the same for the Gaillard. Looking for a slight rasp to the sound but I also like the clarity of the dryness to them if you know what I mean.

What model and setup did you order from him?

English all the way! The only thing I know in french is croissant and I don't think that would convey much to him about tuning accordions haha

When the box arrived and I didn't like what it sounded like, and protested, BG said he "wasn't surprised"! But that didn't stop the issue quickly souring what had been a very cordial relationship. If the result was that he is now giving out those definitions, then perhaps my unhappy experience will benefit others. But understand, the stated tremolo is at the top end and diminishes as the notes get lower.

Yeah I'm definitely going to take this advice on board, but it all boils down to guesswork if you don't have an actual example to play with, it sucks being in the middle of Canada.....anyone around with a Gaillard??? no??? that's what I thought....
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Roger Howard

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2014, 07:06:03 PM »


What model and setup did you order from him?


A Crystal, G/C, LMM, 8 basses - very straightforward. Initially, I was going to get a Turquoise, but decided that if I had to wait I might as well get a more versatile instrument. The idea was just to have a really good two row, but I do like the bandoneon option.

Roger
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odonovanchris

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2014, 07:11:23 PM »


What model and setup did you order from him?


A Crystal, G/C, LMM, 8 basses - very straightforward. Initially, I was going to get a Turquoise, but decided that if I had to wait I might as well get a more versatile instrument. The idea was just to have a really good two row, but I do like the bandoneon option.

Roger

That was exactly my thoughts, you'll get the same sound as the Turquoise on the MM setting anyway and the extra L would be great for sessions. How come you didn't opt for the 12 bass? That would make it more versatile IMO. I wonder if there is much of a bulk difference between the Turquoise and Cristal models......although Joe Derrane can play really fast stuff on the Cristal. I just don't want to end up like those people who bought 9-coupler paolos in the 70s and then realised....damn this thing weighs a ton!
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Cooper

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2014, 07:37:35 PM »

I just don't want to end up like those people who bought 9-coupler paolos in the 70s and then realised....damn this thing weighs a ton!
Gaillards are top notch instruments, and i wanted one of that category. But there are more builders in that category. What made me decide for him is exactly that: the weight. I have tried both the Castagnari and the Serenellini 3row-18b for a while, and my shoulder couldnt cope with either. No problems at all with the Gaillard.

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Roger Howard

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2014, 07:39:48 PM »

It's only a bit bigger than the Turquoise, but nearly a kilo heavier. The weight was something I thought carefully about.   :-\ That said, it's still lighter and smaller than the Loffet 2.6, and the balance is as important as the weight.

I went for eight basses on the principle of simplicity. And it's a classic. The Loffet has twelve, four of which I rarely use.

Roger
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2014, 10:22:31 PM »

I've communicated in French with Gaillard (also Sandro Castagnari), and even revived a bit of schoolboy dutch with van der Aa. But when it comes to the nitty gritty of ordering a melodeon one is best advised to use English. Any maker's English vocabulary on the technical stuff will be far better than anything you might manage in their language.

Put another way, you do it once, they've done it 100 times ::) In Gaillard's case the whole family seem pretty fluent in English. Hope to see them again next month in Ch.d'Ars. Lovely people.

[ed] See below, guess that assumes English is on offer. But Sandro had none in the 90's, and according to Rees is very fluent now, when he's selling melodeons ;)
« Last Edit: June 14, 2014, 08:48:20 AM by Chris Ryall »
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Bob Ellis

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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #58 on: June 13, 2014, 11:28:53 PM »

Your advice is sound, Chris, as usual, but it didn't work for me with Clément Guais because he speaks no English! However, he was very patient with my French, which is not as good as yours. I made sure that he had my specifications in writing and that I had doubled-checked their accuracy so that nothing gets lost in translation.

The discussion on this thread confirms me in my belief that I made the right choice in asking Clément Guais to build my new box rather than Bertrand Gaillard because Clément is more flexible than Bernard and is such a nice accommodating guy. The facts that his boxes are lighter than Bernard's and that the waiting time is much shorter also played a part in my decision. Having played instruments from both manufacturers, I think there is little to choose between them with regard to quality.
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Re: Gaillard Question
« Reply #59 on: June 14, 2014, 12:28:40 AM »

A key factor in how heavy the Gaillard feels is it's reponsiveness; it feels lighter than it is because it responds so quickly. I always played a light two voice box and got used to his three voice easily. I occasionally gig up to 8-9 hours in a day and the weight never bothers me.

The only negative criticism I've heard about BG's instruments is of the corner joints. One maker didn't like his use of miter joints and claimed it weakened the box. I did manage to put a crack my Gaillard and said maker had one in with two cracks, he reckoned it was down to this. I don't have any experience with woodwork so I don't really know myself.
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