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Author Topic: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course  (Read 11883 times)

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Martin P

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Re: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2014, 06:40:48 PM »

 Only if you play a box with a C row.
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TomBom

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Re: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2014, 07:17:11 PM »

I play on a D row. Transposed everything up 2 semitones.

BTW there is even a concertina.net study group.
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Sebastian

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Re: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2014, 07:24:56 PM »

Chris Ryall […] his site on modes http://chrisryall.net/modes
At least the historical explanations are only loosely based on the facts. But, of course, that doesn’t impede the usefullness for playing.
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arty

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Re: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2014, 10:01:10 AM »

But that's it, blown all of my feeble knowledge in one go. From here on in it's going to be a slog!

Yep probably mine too :)  I actually found out about this course from your posting on Facebook Pete so thanks for that.

And me! I have signed up too - like Pete, I sat through all the lectures in one evening and sat the test straight away. I got 11.23 out of 12, so pretty pleased with that, but I will do it again. I only want to do this, so I have some understanding of what Chris Ryall is talking about in his posts! Seriously, increasing my knowledge of music can only be a good thing.
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Helena Handcart

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Re: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2014, 11:13:35 AM »

I've already found a couple of things in the first week where I know intuitively that my melodeon does certain stuff, such as this chord goes with that note etc. and my fingers just find the buttons without thinking and now I can see why this works. I also found it useful to work through the later exercises with an actual keyboard, the only 'keyboard' in the house is a £20 Stagg melodica but I had lots of fun forming chords and investigating intervals with it.

I guess I could've just downloaded an app but the melodica was somehow more immediate and certainly lots of fun. I may try out playing morris tunes on it  >:E
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2014, 08:09:20 PM »

Things have definitely stepped up a gear this week and suddenly thing are dropping into place quite nicely. I still think the pace is daunting for anyone with no prior knowledge of musical theory but the two additional videos are very useful and fill in the gaps nicely. This week it's taken me three nights to watch all five segments and I don't see a button to take the weekly quiz yet (not that I'd use it) perhaps they'll hold that back until Friday.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2014, 09:17:41 PM »

And me! I have signed up too - like Pete, I sat through all the lectures in one evening and sat the test straight away. I got 11.23 out of 12, so pretty pleased with that, but I will do it again. I only want to do this, so I have some understanding of what Chris Ryall is talking about in his posts! Seriously, increasing my knowledge of music can only be a good thing.

Thanks for such a kind "mention in dispatches" :|bl or was it? ::)

Pignol had us playing on a bizarre scale last week, and I ask about "improvising 'out'. Mais oui, Chris, trés simple. Seems the only relaxed notes in the Zidane scale are C and F. His tip was to pick "any scale" with those notes in it, play something, go onto its dominant chord, it'll relax back to the C,F background in the Maqsum rhythm played by the others

Came my turn, I though, well C Blues works nicely on my kit, it has those notes,? Wow, no embarrassing notes!, OK then …  dominant G7 … nothing fell off … hell, go for it, Db7 is a "sub" for G and I have a whole row in Db ;) Bugger me, and it all resolved back nicely to a C sus chord.

So theory works and can lead you to unexpected places. Mind you, French comment was the usual. «tous foutu, il joue Blues»  :-\
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2014, 09:40:29 PM »

So theory works and can lead you to unexpected places.

Fluency in Martian does of course help!  :D
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2014, 09:57:04 PM »

.
     Not sure Blues would go down well there? ;)

  [ed] just to say that (back from hols) I've signed in too.
  Just doing the chords introduction ...
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 10:49:56 PM by Chris Ryall »
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Martin P

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Re: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2014, 11:38:20 PM »

Week 2 quizz is up and running now.
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2014, 12:13:37 AM »

.
     Not sure Blues would go down well there? ;)

  [ed] just to say that (back from hols) I've signed in too.
  Just doing the chords introduction ...

You'll eat it for breakfast Chris but it's affording me a great deal of fun because of all of the dot to dot knitting up of bits of theory I've heard of but never quite understood before.
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Helena Handcart

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Re: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2014, 07:50:52 AM »

.... a great deal of fun because of all of the dot to dot knitting up of bits of theory I've heard of but never quite understood before.

Pete, that's it in a nutshell. There are bits of theory that I've sort of skirted around and things that by now my fingers just intuitively know the box will do but this course is really useful for joining all of this up so that I understand why these things happen and how it all fits together.

Also as an extra bonus it will be useful for answering the inevitable questions people ask about the box when  you're out and about.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2014, 09:02:34 AM »

The single most useful thing anyone can do with the "modes" described in the first lecture series is to play with them on own instrument. Important? Hell yes, because our instrument is "diatonic", actually based on that scale that runs TT½TTT½ (as per white notes piano).

It really doesn't matter which tuning you are in, or one row, or which scale of a 2-row is used. Just start that scale on note number 1(*ionian), then 2 (*dorian minor), 3(phrygian), 4(lydian major) 5(*mixolydian) 6(*aelian minor)  and 7(locrian). I've *ed the ones important in "our" music

You need to feel, and incorporate two things. Firstly the different push pull sequence needed on a melodeon (cross rowers can bypass this issue ;)), but mainly the feel of each mode in respect to its musicality. That's to say that if you treat this as an exercise in pure theory .. it won't be much use to you.

btw: After breakfast in Grenoble courses you get "ear training",  about 10 note sequences played to you,  name the mode. (Tonic can be anything, but as modes apply to all 12 keys identically  it doesn't matter)

btw2 - as the tonic is immaterial, this isn't "about" the dots! It is "about" what western music is based upon.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 09:36:11 AM by Chris Ryall »
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arty

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Re: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2014, 10:10:36 AM »

And me! I have signed up too - like Pete, I sat through all the lectures in one evening and sat the test straight away. I got 11.23 out of 12, so pretty pleased with that, but I will do it again. I only want to do this, so I have some understanding of what Chris Ryall is talking about in his posts! Seriously, increasing my knowledge of music can only be a good thing.

Thanks for such a kind "mention in dispatches" :|bl or was it? ::)

I wasn't being unkind at all Chris, in fact I envy your knowledge of the theory of music. And yes, one of the reasons I started this course, is so that I can understand more of what you, and others, are talking about. By not understanding it, I feel I am missing out on some helpful teaching.

After looking at this weeks lectures, I'm not sure I shall stick at it for long though. I'm not really a theory type person in anything I do and tend to switch off when fed too many facts, theories and methods at one time. Having said that, I have learnt a lot already, in just two weeks of this course.

For me, the thing is to listen to the music and to feel it and respond to it. Do I really need to be able to analyse it, break it down using the proper terms, modes and mathematical explanations in order to play better? For me, the answer is no. But knowing more and being able to understand theory better, will enable me to communicate better and understand more of what people like you Chris are saying and teaching. And that can only be a good thing.

For me, the important thing is to listen to good music, to feel it and open my emotions to it. I don't feel I have to analyse it because I have no wish to. In a way, this disection of it destroys it, it doesn't enhance it.
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TomBom

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Re: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2014, 11:22:15 AM »

Would you mind explaining this?
btw: After breakfast in Grenoble courses you get "ear training",  about 10 note sequences played to you,  name the mode. (Tonic can be anything, but as modes apply to all 12 keys identically  it doesn't matter)
How is it possible to hear the mode? I couldn't tell if a note sequence is e.g. ionian, mixolydian or lydian without accompanying chords or drones.
I am really curious.
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Sebastian

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Re: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2014, 12:05:24 PM »

How is it possible to hear the mode?
You can hear if a melody is in major or minor, can’t you? In the same way you can hear if a melody is in dorian, phrygian &c. mode.

In medieval musical theory the final tone of a melody sets the mode. That’s a practical approach which works for modern melodies, too. (Mostly.) The final tone is normally the fundamental note. (But the fundamental note normally becomes notable already earlier in the tune, due to melodic patterns.) The brain arranges the other six pitches (the brain can manage seven different pitches and in western music there are no more than seven different pitches) in a scale order. Now it is simple:

dorian mode: the third pitch is a minor third to the fundamental note, the sixth is a major sixth,
phrygian mode: the second pitch is a minor second, the fifth pitch is a perfect fifth,
lydian mode: the forth pitch is an augmented forth,
mixolydian mode: the third pitch is a major third, the seventh is a minor seventh.

The different modes are defined by their different internal structure:

(T = whole tone, S = semi-tone)

dorian mode: 1-T-2-S-3-T-4-T-5-T-6-S-7-T-(1) (or TSTTTST)
phrygian mode: STTTSTT
lydian mode: TTTSTTS
mixolydian mode: TTSTTST

This is the definition for major and minor, too:

major: TTSTTTS
minor: TSTTSTT (but due to influences of the major cadence the two last scale notes can be sharpened in some situations)
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2014, 05:48:11 PM »

As above!  I was planning to say something on this later. The important thing is to hear what mode another player is in, as it makes it possible to join in ;) anything else you can learn by rote (though five common modes ain't "rocket science"!

The other things the modes have is a "sensitive note" - in the minors it is what distinguishes the special dorian and phrygian from the relative aolean (=Bm on D row, Em on G). All three minor modes have the same minor 3rd note.  Relative to that ...

Dorian minor has a "major" note 6. In E that is EF#GABC#DE v Aolian Em's EF#GABCDE
Both are easy runs on a D/G.   Dorian takes its notes from D row, Aolean from G Listen how both the 6th, and b6 (C# ,C respectively) really ring out of the scale, and that Dorian feels "brighter"

Phrygian minor has a flat second note, again ringing out loudly and shouting "Orient" to me!  (Phrygia was in central Turkey) Rather than mess with accidentals (usually in wrong octave) just start the D scale on F# (note 3). The sensitive note is … obvious?

I'll do the same for majors in another post ..
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 07:43:00 AM by Chris Ryall »
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Sebastian

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Re: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course
« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2014, 06:54:12 PM »

Phrygian … shouting "Orient" to me!  (Phrygia was in central Turkey)
The names of the modes don’t relate to the geographical regions. The mode we call "phrygian" was unknown to the Hellenes.

Scale construction in classic Greece did work very different from our scales today or even from the medieval modes. In addition to that there was a transmission error in early middle ages, so that what we now call "phrygian" equals in fact more or less to what the Hellenes called "dorian". And our "dorian" would be called "phrygian" by the Hellenes. But still, the scale construction was entirely different, so it’s best to not confound these two traditions, please.

(Please compare this paragraph in WP.)
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 06:58:34 PM by Sebastian »
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2014, 07:36:32 AM »

yup, a real historical mess, in there with chord notations! Though the old Ottoman area remains the place to hear phrygian folk (and pop!) its main use is in jazz impro.

Major time! Even easier ;) To get a "feel" for Ionian mode simply play up and down the D or G "à la Morris man".

Mixolydian mode is just playing in (eg) D on your G row. It's sensitive note is the b7 giving instant Blue feel. Indeed you can ham it in D blues simply by playing D mixo in that way, keep going back to that C natural 8)

Lydian mode is more jazzy, but equally facile. Simply play in (eg) G on your D row. Sensitive note is that sharp 4, namely C#. If you can slip in an Ab accidental too, you can jam with Lisa on the Homer Simpson theme :|glug
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 07:44:09 AM by Chris Ryall »
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Fundamentals of Music Theory Online Course
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2014, 11:14:07 PM »

End of week 2 test: 10/10 second time around. Damn that second question with it's G nat accidental!
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