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Author Topic: beginners ramblings  (Read 4521 times)

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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: beginners ramblings
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2014, 08:54:19 AM »

Frank's opening line is just so important - we are ALL learners, it's just some of us have a bit more experience than others. The day you stop learning is the day when you should take up another hobby  ;)
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Steve_freereeder

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Re: beginners ramblings
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2014, 08:59:20 AM »

The day you stop learning is the day when you should take up another hobby  ;)
You mean feeding worms and turning into compost?   :|bl

Hums: Then t'worms 'll coom 'nd eat thee oop...  ;)
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: beginners ramblings
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2014, 09:32:44 AM »

(cough....) erm that's one possibility!
Bit final though I think, there might be other less permanent solutions   ;D
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Sue

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Re: beginners ramblings
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2014, 11:35:45 AM »

.. and for what it's worth - I believe that to get the most from a D/G type melodeon you have to play both hands together from the start in order to end up where you want to be.  If you concentrate only on the right hand early on - you will get too many rewards for doing well to allow you to challenge your brain to also operate the left hand independently at a later date ... seriously - my opinion is both hands from the start - and I'm mighty glad I followed my book's advice on that in the early days.
[/quote]
My experience agrees with this.  I didn't mean to play with only the right hand but shortly after starting I had a lot of trouble with arthritis in the end joints of the fingers of my left hand which meant that pressing the buttons with those fingers was painful.  In fact I eventually left the melodeon and took up the concertina, which I still enjoy. The arthritis has settled down and the fingers are no longer painful; I missed the melodeon so I'm back playing it.  The trouble is I can play some tunes OK with the right hand but I put the left hand in and I lose it.  It's not only the extra hand it's the difference it makes to the air button and control of the bellows, especially as I play a single voice box.  So in a session I join in, and even lead some tunes, right hand only; I know it's a mistake to continue like this but trying to play both hands is discouraging; it's not like going back to square one more like square minus one!  I wish now I'd hit the painkillers and got on with it. Anyway I think the only answer is to go back and start again - both hands - and hopefully the journey won't be too long!  Any helpful advice appreciated.
Sue
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Bob Ellis

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Re: beginners ramblings
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2014, 12:59:36 PM »

Sue: I have helped a couple of people overcome problems similar to yours. My approach is to get the students to focus initially on a couple of simple tunes in the simplest time signature, which is 4/4 time, and just play oom-pahs on a single pair of bass buttons. Three tunes that work well for this are Not for Joe in G with the G-push/D-pull basses, Adieu, Les Filles de Mon Pays in D with the D-push/A-pull basses and Theme Vannetais in Em with the Em-pull/Bm-push basses. The emphasis here is on establishing the correct rhythm or pulse and simply getting used to coordinating the left and right hands. When you feel comfortable with this you can start moving your fingers around the bass buttons (e.g. replace the Bm basses in Theme Vannetais with D basses).

Once you have got the hang of 4/4 time tunes, start trying other time signatures. I move students onto 6/8 tunes starting with Rogue's March and Cock o' the North in G. As you probably know, the oom-pah's in jigs come on the first, third, fourth and sixth beats of each bar. I would then move onto waltzes, such as Varsovienne and Bouffard's Waltz, with their oom-pah-pah rhythm.

I recommend not trying anything more adventurous with the basses until you can play the basic rhythm without falling off the tune with your right hand. With regular practice that eureka moment should come sooner rather than later and you will soon find that the coordination comes automatically. Then you can begin exploring the rich opportunities afforded by the bass end. Good luck!
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: beginners ramblings
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2014, 01:09:44 PM »

... Anyway I think the only answer is to go back and start again - both hands - and hopefully the journey won't be too long!  Any helpful advice appreciated.
I have a student who was in a very similar situation to you. I got her to choose a couple of easy tunes that she knew really well: Shepherd's Hey and Winster Galop - she was able to play them in the RH pretty much automatically. Then I got her to slow them right down, playing very very slowly indeed, but evenly in strict rhythm. To this she gradually added an oom-pah bass/chord accompaniment, deliberately and regularly like a ticking clock, trying to keep the rhythm absolutely steady. By the end of the lesson she had progressed enough so that she was able to speed up a bit (perhaps to half-speed).

When she came back the following week, she had got it sorted so that she was able to play the tunes up to speed with the steady oom-pah LH going continuously. It took her a week's intensive work to get the independent LH and RH going together, but she did it and can now apply it to other tunes.

The next stage is to then break away from the clockwork-style oom-pah and put some subtleties and variations into it so that it becomes more musical and less mechanical. But you need that firm foundation first of all...
 

Edit: Bob posted at the same time as me. His advice is great too!
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: beginners ramblings
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2014, 02:22:52 PM »

Sound advice Steve.
I did exactly that, slow it right down and bash out the um- pah against the melody. I can't remember which tune but it was something really simple and in Mally's book.
Then, as you say, once slotted into the brain, you can apply it to other tunes and start to get away from just um-pahing.
Once you've got the link between both hands established in your brain you've won the battle.
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Chris Ryall

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Re: beginners ramblings
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2014, 03:49:08 PM »

Hmmm, dunno about you but my own arms are sort of "connected by the shoulder bones". Brain just sits on top ::)
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: beginners ramblings
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2014, 04:00:22 PM »

um....yes quite!
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Mike Carney

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Re: beginners ramblings
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2014, 04:26:45 PM »


I am of the "work out some chords first" school. The issue is that some chords eg D can be either way, and if you learn a prestidigitous right end, then go to the left later … the chord may not be there and you have to start again :-\  It works because nearly all British folk tunes are structured in chords. There's a knack to it, in the end they come together.

lLink to "4th button start" debate
With you 100% on that one Chris. When you have two possible places to play a note it is so important IMHO. Must say I like the new avatar. Much better!
Mike
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Chris Ryall

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Re: beginners ramblings
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2014, 05:01:09 PM »

That old ativar had a complex life. It started out as a photo at a friend's funeral wake, and was cut to a stencil by my then teenage son (still on my wall). Hence to my melnet ativar, with the cigar brushed/faked in during my melodeonista period. I don't really smoke, made too much as a medic out of other's habits?

Yes, one must move on. Son is losing a bit of hair already (maternal gene pool) and that cap doesn't fit. So I appropriated it for the Sheffield "flat" session, though I think no one got the joke. Excellent bash, incidentally. Bb is fluent on my Db/D rows, and I had a song prepared. I sort of fudged into Eb as we went along. Real learning experience. There wasn't enough Cm, but we had several tunes in Gm.

At the end a guitarist turned up and did a song, inevitably in G, though we finessed him into the minor :o What an instrument this is!

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Sue

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Re: beginners ramblings
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2014, 09:28:07 PM »

Steve and Bob,
Thanks for the advice and encouragement.  I will select an easy tune that I already know in 4/4, slow it down and put in simple basses - go through it lots of times, every day for a week and see how that goes.  Steve, thanks for giving the example of your student, that really helped.
Sue
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Oakwood D/G, Karel van der Leeuw D/G
G/D anglo concertina
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