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Author Topic: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass  (Read 2021 times)

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Chris Ryall

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Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« on: June 24, 2014, 11:18:54 AM »

These are the useful bass/cross pull chords - (C has moved to the second posts)
layouts are "from the point of view of your left hand"   <feet  [chord]  head>  :|glug

Useful "runs" in Em include

1. Hold E bass with 1.Em;  2. Dpull;  3. Cpull
    .. resolve to either Em or B (major or minor)

2. Hold E bass with 1.Em;  2. Amaj;  3. C pull chord
    .. resolve as above

.. or play these backward /ascending etc ? - to your own ear

ACE 3 bass combo is the only "true" Am triad, sounding a bit "Bavarian" to me. I prefer Am7
« Last Edit: June 24, 2014, 12:25:44 PM by Chris Ryall »
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2014, 11:29:19 AM »

These are the others. Most of the push combos simply "bass" a different note from the chord and as such don't change the harmony

I've put the C push + pull chords together as a lot of people will hold a C bass in play, giving that bright, spring feeling of the C lydian mode of G

Only two of the  "chord/chord" pairs sound nice to my ear, see what you think. (G+B push isn't entirely horrid)

Progressions: The G maj7 push -> C maj7 pull is "jazzy" but very useful. It needs 3rds out on the B chord!

Don't forget .. further chord possibilites on right end, or trail a finger there to extend these ones ;)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2014, 12:27:33 PM by Chris Ryall »
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nigelr

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2014, 11:36:40 AM »

Hi Chris - just to clarify, should these diagrams be read horizontally with the top of the box effectively at the right hand end of your rows?  Thanks.   N
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Sebastian

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2014, 11:45:27 AM »

Hi Chris - just to clarify, should these diagrams be read horizontally with the top of the box effectively at the right hand end of your rows?  Thanks.   N
The diagrams show the melodeon in this position:

The Walrus

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2014, 11:48:03 AM »

Thanks Chris, that's really useful.

I'll transcribe them to GC and give it a go.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2014, 12:00:37 PM »

My bass layout on pull is

Bb    F#      G   *Ab    C#    B
Eb   chord   C chord  E chord
F     chord   D chord  A chord

I'm "exploring Bb/Gm" and all the combos highlighted make some sort of interesting noise! The trick is to never use a bass, or chord containing a note that is "out" of your home scale. I have no 3rds at all - very helpful!  A lot of the effects make "extended" chords slightly jazzy. Strict triads can be good for trad folk, but that's not what this thread is about.

It's one of the unsung miracles of using the "diatonic" scale. Harmonic minor does a similar trick, but can bite you back ;)
*Ab is from Eb scale, equivalent to playing C in a D tune, still "not un-useful"
« Last Edit: June 24, 2014, 12:03:11 PM by Chris Ryall »
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MelonBox

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2019, 12:59:36 PM »

Thanks for these handy diagrams Chris! I've this year been in a right pickle debating with workshoppers whether the combination of a D bass with a C chord was a D7, Dsus or C9! I'd always called it D7 from years back when I went to a Squeezy workshop, and them someone challenged me on it and I had no explanation - despite me trying to use my slightly gone off theory to work it out! Glad to know it is in fact a D7, but an inverted version. Phew!
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Gena Crisman

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2019, 01:44:18 PM »

D bass with a C chord was a D7, Dsus or C9! I'd always called it D7 from years back when I went to a Squeezy workshop, and them someone challenged me on it and I had no explanation - despite me trying to use my slightly gone off theory to work it out! Glad to know it is in fact a D7, but an inverted version. Phew!

D bass + C chord? I believe this is described as 'D: CEG = C sus' on Chris' diagrams for pull D (1st post) and push BD (2nd post). Surely a D7 chord would be D F# A C, which would be a D chord + a C bass (per the last image in the 2nd post, all C bass chords).

Perhaps a muddle hath occurred?

edit For posterity's sake, D bass + C chord is a combo I'd probably try to describe as either Csus2/D or Cadd9/D, depending on if you have your thirds out or in, as I'm reasonably sure sus chords should have the 3rd absent. The /D is on the assumption that the D bass will end up as the bass note as well as populating the chord, even with eg a bass stop. I'm hardly a chord maestro, though.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 02:16:45 PM by Gena Crisman »
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2019, 02:51:45 PM »


... I'm reasonably sure sus chords should have the 3rd absent...

erm, I think that's what a sus chord is. A major chord with the third replaced by either a major 2 or a perfect 4. sus2 and sus4 respectively.

[I think it is stretching things to call a D bass with a C chord  D7, without including a 5th (A)  (but, if you do include an A bass it's more like a variation on Am11)].
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 03:00:18 PM by Tone Dumb Greg »
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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2019, 04:44:48 PM »

All open to interpretation, but I would be inclined to notate a C chord with a D bass as just C/D and leave it at that.  Given the notes of D, C, E and G all the other permutations are missing one or two notes that determine their "flavour":

D7 = D F# A C
Dsus = D G A
C9 = C E G Bb D
Em7#5 = E G C D

The other way round as D chord with a C bass can more closely be deemed a D7 but could still just as easily be written D/C.

Possibly over simplifying things but that's the way my head works.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 05:19:15 PM by nigelr »
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MelonBox

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2019, 08:01:27 PM »

Wah! Thanks Nigel. OK, so I'll just call it a C/D. It did take me a little while to get my head around Chris' diagrams and I obviously didn't get it quite right  :-\
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Gena Crisman

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2019, 09:17:52 PM »

I would be inclined to notate a C chord with a D bass as just C/D and leave it at that.  Given the notes of D, C, E and G all the other permutations are missing one or two notes that determine their "flavour"
...
just as easily be written D/C.

Broadly speaking, yes, I would agree that this is probably the best notation for us to use as, & for, box players - realistically it's far more usefully instructional on what to do, too.

This could fall down a little bit when your friend who plays guitar or piano etc asks you what you were playing, as they can have a very different relationship with chords, and I think realistically these may be the circles in which Chris swims. There are definitely ways to describe what is happening though, but, what is actually happening will vary from box to box as our fundamental reed sets and chord inversions will differ, and unless you know what's going on with your specific instrument to know whether it's eg 2nd inversion, add2, add9, both, or what, it's probably still better stick to the simpler facts of what you're doing - which is playing a bunch of D notes (mostly) under some inversion of a (perhaps partial) C chord.
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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2019, 09:30:28 PM »

" OK, so I'll just call it a C/D. "

Hehe! You lot amaze me with your technical theory talk. It all goes over my head. (I'm not yet converted to C/D's. Like me, my record player still likes vinyl I'm afraid.)
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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2019, 10:06:51 PM »

" OK, so I'll just call it a C/D. "

Hehe! You lot amaze me with your technical theory talk. It all goes over my head. (I'm not yet converted to C/D's. Like me, my record player still likes vinyl I'm afraid.)
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2019, 10:19:19 PM »

" OK, so I'll just call it a C/D. "

Hehe! You lot amaze me with your technical theory talk. It all goes over my head. (I'm not yet converted to C/D's. Like me, my record player still likes vinyl I'm afraid.)

Don't be fooled. This is the least technical way possible of defining a two row chord. Name the chord you're pressing and then name the bass you're pressing. I haven't checked, but my gut feeling is this works for any chord/bass combination. I think I've just had a Damascus moment.
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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2019, 10:51:43 PM »

I would suggest that using simpler notation is a far better way of avoiding confusion amongst other musicians. C/D will be understood by most guitarists and pianists but if you say you're playing a D7 when you're not you could get some nasty clashes. We need to be careful about our shared vocabulary as it is far too easy to cause confusion. I say that as someone who has come to the melodeon after some 30 odd years playing jazz piano where the chords are very specific - if you say to others you're playing a Cm7b9 you have to rely on the fact that everyone knows what you mean but also that you're voicing it correctly otherwise you can get a complete car crash. Keep it simple and less can go wrong. If you rarely play with others then you can be more flexible. Others may disagree but that's my observation. N
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2019, 11:03:23 PM »

I don't really need to know the answer to this, but I can't resist asking: What are the notes in Cm7b9? Just in case.
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Greg Smith
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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2019, 11:13:43 PM »

I don't really need to know the answer to this, but I can't resist asking: What are the notes in Cm7b9? Just in case.
(:) the notes are C Eb G Bb and Db (the flattened ninth)  so nothing that is possible on a D/G melodeon! (:)
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2019, 11:18:37 PM »

Just out of curiosity, you understand, but if the flat 9 was a sharp 9, would it become Cm7#9. If so, I think I get how it works.
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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2019, 11:57:19 PM »

Just out of curiosity, you understand, but if the flat 9 was a sharp 9, would it become Cm7#9. If so, I think I get how it works.

Pretty much. You may want to look up 'chord spelling' - it's a field in of itself.

Sometimes, it's very useful for quickly describing/discussing, in nuanced way, what a piece of music is doing in a way that the chord fully voiced out on a score doesn't. The important thing to remember is that when things do get complicated, there's more than one right answer for how to describe a chord, and really all we're trying to do is figure out and communicate cool things you can do with music. Sometimes, accepting the complication can be very beneficial - after all, that's Jazz.
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