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Author Topic: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass  (Read 2034 times)

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Anahata

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2019, 12:00:53 AM »

A sharp 9 would be a flat 10, which an octave and a minor third, so part of the minor chord,
e.g. in C it would just be another E♭ an octave higher, so you'd be back to a Cm7. (C  E♭  G  B♭  E♭).

...well OK, as Gena implies, it could be a D♯ after all - it's all about context!
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2019, 12:05:14 AM »

Luckily, I can't do it.
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Greg Smith
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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2019, 12:14:11 AM »

You may want to look up 'chord spelling' - it's a field in of itself.

In a previous life, I cared about chord spelling. My melodeon life brought release. My Damascus moment was the realisation that I don't need it at all. Well, not for the left hand. Just say it like it is. The people I play with don't care much what the Sunday name of the chord is. Just what it sounds like.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2019, 08:29:06 AM »

Mel, I'm away at the moment so can't check my notes, and hope my memory is correct.

We came across a tune using a D bass and C chord taught by Anne when we were all together at Halsway in June.
We too asked about how to notate such a bass and chord on our score.  She implied that the norm taken from other forms of music (orchestral? Jazz?) was to put the bass under the chord, so would simply notate it as C/D and leave it at that.

If Julian of this parish pops along, he can tell me if my memory is correct!
Cheers
Q
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I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Julian S

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2019, 09:08:34 AM »

My brain is quite addled at present but I do recall the discussion that Q mentions, with Anne Niepold, at Halsway. I should have made notes, but I am pretty certain that Q is correct - but whether Anne's approach is standard I can't say. Makes sense to me anyway.
I must get round to working out the names of my cross chord combinations on my 12 bass, with it's very strange layout. I do know that having an A bass immediately next to a C chord is really helpful - but I've yet to find a use for F chord with the E bass on the push.

Julian
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Anahata

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2019, 10:04:25 AM »

I've yet to find a use for F chord with the E bass on the push.

Descending bass scale against unchanging chord?
F/F  F/E  F/D  F/C
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Julian S

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2019, 10:29:56 AM »

I've yet to find a use for F chord with the E bass on the push.

Descending bass scale against unchanging chord?


I can see the possibilities - however fingers aren't cooperating (my left little finger is too bent !) I don't have a problem with using little finger for right hand but there is a positive- ideally suited to the an dro !

J

J
F/F  F/E  F/D  F/C
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MelonBox

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2019, 03:13:51 PM »


We too asked about how to notate such a bass and chord on our score.  She implied that the norm taken from other forms of music (orchestral? Jazz?) was to put the bass under the chord, so would simply notate it as C/D and leave it at that.


I would suggest that using simpler notation is a far better way of avoiding confusion amongst other musicians. C/D will be understood by most guitarists and pianists but if you say you're playing a D7 when you're not you could get some nasty clashes. We need to be careful about our shared vocabulary as it is far too easy to cause confusion. I say that as someone who has come to the melodeon after some 30 odd years playing jazz piano where the chords are very specific - if you say to others you're playing a Cm7b9 you have to rely on the fact that everyone knows what you mean but also that you're voicing it correctly otherwise you can get a complete car crash. Keep it simple and less can go wrong. If you rarely play with others then you can be more flexible. Others may disagree but that's my observation. N

Thanks very much for the clarification and bolstering, chaps! Nigel - great advice as ever when it comes to chords and scales theory! I'm back with Anne in October for the Advanced course at Halsway. So good last year! We touched on jazz chord theory and use of modes to create interesting chords, but I must say it is very new territory for me! Fascinating though
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Gena Crisman

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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2019, 07:09:00 PM »

Using Chord/Bass is the simplest way to explain it. But, it may not necessarily be completely correct.

My instrument uses 3 reed fundamentals, with a stop to remove the lowest one of these, which I understand is not unusual. Attached is a spectrogram of me playing this 'C/D' chord in several ways. Left to right, this is, 3rds+Low, then 3rds+Low, then 3rds+Low. In this case, the 3rd of the C chord is an E note, E4, the switchable low fundamental appears to be D2. For each, I've played the chord on its own, and the chord + the fundamental at the same time (order of chord-both-chord, but, both-chord-both in the middle - note the presence of low D note). Hopefully this is apparent from the spectrogram. The (a) notes are harmonics D notes.

You can see from this that my C chord is made of C4, E4 and G4. My D fundamental is made of D2, D3, and D4. That D4 is actually right in the middle of the chord notes, instead of below it. If you play a C/D chord on a piano, I'm fairly sure you wouldn't be expecting to also play a D note in the body of the chord in this way. Proximity of notes in a chord can be quite important to how it is perceived, especially wrt spicier combinations. Even considering the direct octave harmonic, I would still contend that there are some situations where it is important to be aware of this, as the proximity is likely to disrupt certain techniques, whilst enabling others. So, in some situations, this will be important information - especially those where someone wants to transfer non-fixed reed set knowledge and experience onto melodeons/accordions/et al.

If I want to write a synth tune that uses authentic sounding accordion chords, this information could be important. I'd also note that I've played a singular instrument that had a bass stop, but only 2 reeds in its fundamentals - I believe in this case it would be D3 and D4. For that plucky instrument, playing the C and D fundamental combo without the D3 would mean that the bass note was no longer D.

Does any of this actually matter, generally? No, most of the time it does not - I'm not trying to suggest we 'never describe it this way'. But, idk it just feels wrong to imply there isn't necessarily more at work here, and I just can't put the idea down without having formed it into this packet of information.
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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2019, 08:50:33 PM »

Just out of curiosity, you understand, but if the flat 9 was a sharp 9, would it become Cm7#9. If so, I think I get how it works.
No point in having a sharp 9 on a minor chord. C minor has an Eb as the 3rd. The sharp 9 is D# = same thing (enharmonic, for those who care about labels).
However, a major chord with a sharp 9 is a funky dude and very common in certain styles. Listen to Miles Davies All Blues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-488UORrfJ0
Around 45 seconds in the substitution chords in the blues sequence are sharp 9 chords. That's bar 10 in the 12 bar blues pattern (though you have to include the 4 bar link passage afterwards before the next cycle). I'm sure very few people are interested. I don't have a standard 2 row layout, but it is possible to play a couple of Sharp 9 chords on the melodeon.
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Re: Left hand "crosed" chords on a DG 8 bass
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2019, 01:41:36 AM »

However, a major chord with a sharp 9 is a funky dude and very common in certain styles. Listen to Miles Davies All Blues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-488UORrfJ0

Jimi Hendrix made regular use of a 7#9 chord (e.g., "Purple Haze"). A very "funky dude" indeed.
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